00:00:00 we don't have the first amendment in this country we don't have a country we don't have anything period Roger Simon you were part of the Hollywood Elite only to be ostracized what influence do you think communism has had on Hollywood communism has the money meaning China the Chinese are very smart about us we have no idea about them I was working on the shooting at the C School the most interesting thing that was revealed was that for the last 20 years she's been a patient of vanderbelt psychiatric only 20% of the Jews

00:00:31 left Egypt during The Exodus what that mean 80% preferred slavery unfortunately that makes sense and not just for Jews but for the human race you were part of uh the Hollywood Elite only to be ostracized after your shift in political views what were some of the big realizations that you had after you kind of uh shifted uh that a lot of people who said were my friends really weren't uh and that's a very sad realization to have actually I mean you know I would hear I there was a for years I used to have breakfast with

00:01:12 a bunch of uh artsy Hollywood types at the farmers market in in Los Angeles famous place uh the BBC would come to to to film our table it was that kind of place and it was it was The Artsy end of Hollywood you know people want to get uh foreign directors bertuchi would come one day it was like that kind of really you know I I felt nervous being there because I quite wasn't in there class but I was admitted anyway uh after I kind of started blogging around 03 02 um just observing things and uh I would get

00:01:57 back that Roger's dead H and I I stopped going and when I when I that that's just a personal thing cuz these were my friends yeah writers like love to procrastinate cuz writing is hard yeah so we would all turn up there around 800 in the morning and see if we could make it to about 9:15 920 before we really should go to work yeah so that was a ritual of my life and and the other thing about being a writer is it's very lonely work I mean you got to sit in the room to it sorry anyway uh and you so this was my social life not

00:02:38 completely but effectively sure and so that was kicked out of me that that's just the psychological part of it the emotional part of it I was also the phone stopped ringing um back in ' 89 I was nominated for Academy Award I can say I'm this sounds like bragging but it's by accident I'm the I'm the only person currently breathing with an ad Academy Award nomination for adapting a Nobel Prize winner it just happens to me what did you to know for a movie called enemies a love story kind of an art film

00:03:14 but very good with Angelica Houston and other it's adapted from a novel of Isaac bashevis Singer who won the the Nobel Prize justifiably a great writer anyway and I took a lot of his material I wasn't that stupid however how you know after I did that you know the phone would ring three times a week with offers to write spent a lot of money to write very serious kind of Oscar type pictures and I I got so cocky and stupid that I would turn down most of them MH uh partly because I didn't have the time

00:03:49 to do them all but but the other the other was you know oh that's interesting but not really anyway I I mean I turned out things like Forest Gump oh wow I mean I I I own this building and the one next door and the one next door if I had done it absolutely but but when I read it I said I little cich shade so that so we all make kind of mistakes but that's that that was that was just a mistake yeah but the but the the long is short of it the phone just stopped ringing I mean it was gone and and at that

00:04:23 particular time I started something called then pajamas media which which was sort of the first online Media company from from a kind of conservative perspective but we didn't try to do it that way this is an interesting story uh I I I was teaming up with this guy Glenn Reynolds who's a you may know is a professor here in uh at UT um in Knoxville in law brilliant guy great guy uh anyway we started this pajamas media thing and the reason it was called pajamas media is because some of us had identified the lies that

00:05:05 Dan rther had told about uh the National Guard papers of George Bush as a lie because uh we found that it had been uh printed on a Microsoft Word that doesn't exist at the time so it was a nailed down lie anyway anyway uh the U then executive producer CBS got on The Late Show this is all around 02 and called us amateurs and our pajamas even know we were lawyers and I was this famous screenwriter all these things he didn't he didn't look us up anyway uh he so we called okay we're pajamas media so we

00:05:49 saw this he named it and now still exists as PJ media I'm not not I was CEO for seven years but I'm not part of it now but but uh in those early days we were very kind of um idealistic why we were idealis because we de said okay what we're going to do is have writers from both sides and videos too in the beginning um from both sides of the political divide that was not as bad as is now but was already there and um and because I'm a professional writer I said we got to pay the writers on both sides um this and so

00:06:33 we started doing this and it lasted about a month the reason it stopped is that the writers from the left all wanted to be paid more than the writers in the right because they were there symbolically quote unquote the the man the billionaire there's always a billionaire in these things who who put up the money for the company I didn't even go to him because it was so embarrassing that they would want that so we became a conservative and some libertarian site yeah but uh that and that once that was on the internet and we were the

00:07:09 first ones we started something called pjtv which was the first of Internet political television in fact I was broadcasting live from the Minneapolis Convention for about 14 hours in a row I was the I was the host oh nice I'm making an ass to myself so but it was fun anyway be that precipitated my being even more black bold in Hollywood wow and I to the extent that I had a note in my mail box that I'll never forget I just went to I lived in the Hollywood Hills in a area where lots of people down the street were actors and

00:07:55 the usual people that you all know and I opened my mailbox and there was scroll in a pie piece of paper we know where you live oh man so but it took me many years to move to Nashville I should have moved the next day but but you know so that that's what I learned from that experience and after that the phone didn't ring and all of that now nowadays there's a separate industry evolving of of conservative film making principally Christian that's pretty good I mean in in the case of Mel Gibson it's more than

00:08:32 pretty good because he's a great director most of the stuff is you know I I I I I I don't like to say this but it's fairly mediocre as film making um but then again Hollywood what is doing now is very mediocre too so it's not it's not a um that much of a fault the the problem with people on the right is that they haven't had a lot of practice in the Arts interesting and here's one of the interesting phenomenon was that a couple of occasions because I had run these companies and because I had made

00:09:06 movies several including with Richard prior and other people nice uh I was offered the chance to head up a movie company on the right or so-call right the conser let's say a Centrist movie company because I don't believe movies should be that propagandistic and I immediately said yes in every case and because I what fun and and then uh never showed with money they never showed with it and and I came to this conclusion that people on the conservative side The Fat Cats the billionaires and so forth they're

00:09:43 delighted uh to put their money in the filer monic whatever town they live in have their name in the lobby there you know in Gold but uh Beethoven doesn't need any help at this point that's right I mean I me I love Beethoven you love Beethoven but you know need help people that need help are the ones who are walking around trying to make a movie now but that's what happened on the other hand here in Nashville there are people on the right who succeeded just because they're really good y you know

00:10:16 like Kid Rock and so forth anyway but um it's an interesting phenomenon I think it it it speaks to the kind of misplacement of conservative money in general not just uh not just film making yeah absolutely uh you've written a a number of uh acclaimed novels and and screenplays uh one of which as you said was nominated for an Academy Award uh how did you get started in in in writing I think it was always in my blood I I grew up in a family my father was a radiologist a fairly prominent radiologist who who treated the

00:10:56 Hiroshima ladies oh wow after I mean so when my first dealings with Tennessee when I was around seven is he would be flying down monthly to Oak Ridge uh because you know he was considered an expert of what nuclear weapons would do to your body so I grew up around physicist and and when I was around 12 I thought that was what I had to be because he well that's whole smart or something I mean allegedly I met J Robin Oppenheimer when I was three wow but I don't remember I do remember Isel Robie who was a big character in The

00:11:35 Oppenheimer movie if you saw it anyway uh I started to realize however that my gifts were not in that direction yeah to put it myy and um also though everybody in my family wanted to be a writer but none of them could do it and I just started writing when I was 16 and I published my first novel was 21 I mean I went to the Eld drama school everybody hated me because I was the first one to get published oh nice um I think that I it's not because I was especially good it was because I had fear my father

00:12:12 always wanted me to be the doctor of course I had Fe because you wouldn't make a living as a writer right and so I had a fear I had to prove it fast that awesome fortunately I did but it's you know in every career as of a writer it goes like a sine wave you know and mine certainly did I mean it to this day it is I mean the last five years I spent as the editor editor of large of The Epic Times which was a very successful paper uh publishing everything I wrote and they started not to publish it they

00:12:53 started censoring me and other people I can't get into this thoroughly because there's going to be litigation wow but I that's why I had to leave if you if you're at my age which is now 80 you don't like being censored no you don't like being censored at 30 nobody likes being censed I mean censorship is awful anyway we believe in the First Amendment yeah that's if we don't have the first amendment in this country we don't have a country we don't have anything period no stop anyway uh so I've just in the last six weeks when my

00:13:28 wife was also a writer very good one started a substack oh nice called American refugees. substack docomo pretty well but doesn't have anywhere near what I had at The Epic Times because they had a newsletter for me they got you know maybe hundred a couple hundred thousand people but all those people they wouldn't give me the emails yeah so I I'm now and I hope listeners to this show uh have a look at it uh at America refugees. substack docomond fiction book most of my books have been fiction but I've written a few

00:14:08 non-fiction which is American refugees and is about the experience of the people who move from Red States from Blue states to Red states which is ongoing in the society and if Camala Harris wins in November it's going to explode well yeah we're talking about um you know the First Amendment and censorship and it really seems like it's gotten bad the last I guess four years um but I remember so I worked on a couple R Ron Paul campaigns back in the day and um he really got me motivated to get more involved in politics and you

00:14:43 know we were talking about the spying that the NSA was doing there were a couple whistleblowers that had come out and so when Edward Snowden finally came out I was like yes you know we were called crazy for so many years and that came out and now everybody could know what was happening and you know I guess it's what 2013 2014 and what upset me about it I actually got less involved in politics after was the Public's response nobody really seemed to care why do you think that is well part of it is human lethargy

00:15:18 unfortunately but I I have two part answer to this but the the first part answer I learned as a Jew very recently because it's something I didn't know I've become more religious and the rabbi told me and then I checked it there is the most famous Jewish scholar really other than my Mones of the Middle Ages is a man named Rashi wrote unbelievably reams of commentary on the talet and all these things he said only 20% of the Jews left Egypt during The Exodus now when you think about they go what that mean 80% preferred slavery M

00:16:00 uh now I think unfortunately that makes sense and not just for Jews but for the human race uh so that's part of the reason if you can extrapolate why people sit by while something as important as as freedom of expression is annihilated and the other reason in our culture is the educational system which has been so bad for so many years years didn't teach anybody that that was an important thing mhm they were taught like that things like CRT and you know uh that that a girl could decide to be a boy when she's seven years old or vice

00:16:48 versa are important words freedom of expression n well that's oldfashioned stuff that was in the Bill of Rights oh I mean you ask the average seventh grader what's in the Bill of Rights you'll probably get a pretty uh you'll get no answer whatsoever and so you can't you're asking people to defend something they never heard of yeah it's uh it's it was disappointing I was watching a video that I did in like 2012 uh where I was talking about what we had at risk in the future if this didn't get under control and uh so the

00:17:30 last four years had been just like oh my gosh I kind of for a minute thought I was wrong you know because I got out of like after the Edwards Snowden thing I lost a lot of motivation with it and um you know I thought okay well maybe I was just overexaggerating what could happen and then you know covid came out and the censorship was on a whole other level I got shadowbanned off of Instagram uh I got sh I got taken off of YouTube sure I mean happens I I was banned on Twitter for years now I'm back but I don't even

00:18:01 like to go there I feel it's like I mean the the real question about is social media good or bad I it's it's a very mixed bag I I would agree and the algorithm is driving thought and confirmation bias and you know the the algorithm is is might be the most dangerous thing uh that we face um for freedom for uh for society right now um because it's programming you know it's like confirmation bias programming programming what do you believe confirmation bias see this see this it's very dangerous well yeah I've watched it

00:18:39 myself it's kind of interesting Google I think is the most dangerous of all H because it rule it rules search to the extent that I use it and I hate myself for using it but I've noticed this a very funny thing because I was an early adopter of the internet very much so because I PJ media way back then when if you typed in in those days the name Roger by itself I was number six uh number five is very obvious that's Roger Federer uh and Roger Waters was awful person was up there now you I I I don't

00:19:21 think I appear yeah I mean and that's all not we I can't keep up with any of these people that's part of it but the other part of it is you see how you are that the algorithm throws you down whenever you do a research on on Google anything that is slightly controversial and where there's a right or left you can't find you have to go to page five yeah to find the other response now most people aren't bothering to do that they're just getting so Google has become an interest a example mind control that I've been in the Soviet un

00:20:01 quite a bit and I was in China when it was people were mous and I can tell you that uh Google had they they had nothing on Google right Google is far more successful in pra yeah it's just getting people to know and understand it and care you're talking about the 20% yeah I don't think that most people uh most people really care um what about impressing when we say that I mean I'm sitting there yeah you're right you're right me yeah it's not a it's not a pleasant thought and you know the other thing is

00:20:34 I think and I think you understand this having watched some of your stuff and also I I think it behooves people who have a microphone or a pen or a pen whatever you want uh to be positive yep I mean because if you're negative forever yeah it's a self-fulfilling property well that is part of the goal is like you know when talking to people say I don't think most people care but also having a message of hope um which was interesting on the debate last night you know I don't really like uh kamla but um she had a message of hope she was

00:21:08 positive um she threw out a lot of lies but you know Trump took the the bait hookline and sinker and made a full of himself in my opinion yeah I mean the prump Trump is an enigma I mean I'll vote for him because his policies are 100 times better 100% but the and and another thing to give him as a positive is that very few people have the energy to do what he did right I mean and it it took it takes at this point in history someone with that kind of energy to turn the boat around I mean cuz the boat is going over the cliff

00:21:50 however the guy has the thinnest skin I've ever seen in my life I I mean she was teasing attacking him with the dopiest stuff and he still crowd says oh my Crowds Are the biggest crowds ever meanwhile the boat's going over the cliff and he's trying to tell us that she's wrong about how many people are at my uh yeah I mean who cares only him yeah that was the problem that is that's exactly right um you know going back a little bit because I I was looking up your career it's pretty fascinating um

00:22:24 you had an experience with um the uh just slip my mind you guys experience with the black Black Panthers um how did that experience with the Black Panthers uh shape your ideology and activism ah well that's a very interesting story because we're going way back obviously 1970s yeah H early' 70s really and I was a young writer trying to make it in Hollywood and writing my early detective novels which were kind of leftwing but not when I look back on them not all that leftwing but uh they they were

00:22:59 probably more Kennedy style but but um they were fairly successful but I in those days uh I lived in the Echo Park District of Los Angeles which is working class A lot of chos um I knew a lot of people from the Berkeley student movement I was friends with Tom Hayden I can give you stories about having been a Tom Hayden's house with Jane Fonda where she ostentatiously pretended she was doing the LA I me I I saw hypocrisy like I If you people ask me why I really changed is my my my hypocrisy quoti had gone for the

00:23:40 Ruth anyway but back to the Panthers so I knew some of them from these meetings and those were the days they ran something called The Breakfast program the Black Panther breakfast program uh which was fairly propagandistic which was you know the poor kids and watts and South Central they would give them breakfast and and a little marks at the same time okay so so they would show up in my house at um at you know 10:00 at night my I had little kids myself I one of them anyway at that time and hey Roger you know and then he

00:24:18 show up with about six seven year olds you know and three Panthers or something like that you know uh some of these people were well known I mean in the in Panther ideology and they say how about some money for the uh for some breakfast for the kids and you know I was making more money than I knew what to do with because in those days Hollywood threw money at people it's was much more much easier to make money in Hollywood in the 70s and now in in terms of the money of the day so I you know I would write him

00:24:53 a check for $200 which is I guess what maybe $1,200 now but but uh and feel like oh I'm doing but I was always wondering too at the same time are these guys using this to buy what because money is fun fungible as we know and as it turned out I already turned off the speaking uh a couple of the guys I knew were were arrested for assault with a deadly things these were not total idealist to say the least they weren't happy Panthers the irony of the whole thing is that had got me at work in Hollywood huh because the Hollywood

00:25:32 of that time was so phony although they made much better movies it was so funny that my agent would say you know Roger knows the Panthers and they to the executives and they say oh Roger knows the Panthers that's cool said him in here for for for a meeting nice so I go to a meeting I mean it it was sort of like out of a Tom Wolf's ma m was in the fact maker you know it was like kind of that kind of phony stuff they what the p just like way cool right I I give my a three minute wrap about the campers Panthers

00:26:05 and then well the story I'd like to do is oh we'll sign that up so it worked that that that's when I look at it it's so awful and so but I mean it drifted away after a while this was the period of uh the baby Mogul at Universal Studios all of whom espouse leftwing ideologies while driving around in Mercedes and they didn't have Teslas yet but you know that that stuff has been going on in Hollywood since I was there I mean yeah it's always surprised me that Hollywood is so far left because you got

00:26:44 a bunch of wealthy people it's it's really not about giving back it's about image and you know how cool you are and but there're you know I guess there noise before my time it was not really that way I mean because the the original Hollywood remember was formed by three or four guys that came from lived within 10 miles 20 miles of each other in Poland MH who came in the Warner Brothers those people they all loved America for America made them Rich for one reason but they did love the American idea and the early Hollywood

00:27:22 movies you know like Yankee Doodle Dandy and all those things they were phenomenally pro-american it was just the later generations the the post-war Boom Baby Boomers that that turned High there were now that I I put a glass on it there was always a communist element yeah I mean if you read Ron R's terrific book uh red star over Hollywood it it talks about this again was slightly before my time how there was a playright named John Howard Lawson pretty good playright but a communist uh who everybody

00:27:59 who was in the party and a screenwriter would submit his or hers uh script to Lawson before they gave it into the studio so Lawson would vet it for the proper politics now Lawson was very smart so he did not you know the idea of the script was not to have everybody yelling workers of the World Unite you you have nothing to lose by your chains or something it was to do that kind of stuff subtly and so that infected that that tged some of it and you know the other part of it it's guilt I mean people in Hollywood they're making

00:28:42 fortunes for doing what everybody does in the in the third grade they come on and I'm going to put on a show for my parents but they're doing you know at 30 they're getting paid 20 million a year I mean it's a real disconnection yeah I mean I worked with extreme examples of that like B Midler I mean she's so extreme you you I mean and I've worked with a lot of these people some of them are terrific people and don't do that kind of BS sure I mean Angelica Houston great and also a terrific actress as

00:29:23 everybody knows but some of the ones I mean my head would spin yeah especially now oh now now they're not doing the work now it's just that I mean Angelica Hedon is a different generation that's what she was a real artist yeah yeah that's it's changed it has changed a lot I mean that what influence do you think communism has had on Hollywood and do you think that there maybe have been people put in place to spread that type of propaganda well you know communism has the money meaning China mhm and so and I think

00:30:03 starting maybe 15 20 years ago they it drifted over to making movies for that audience which was the biggest audience and it started to affect all the bigger action films tremendously um I mean I could at that particular point there was an art film thing coming out of China too there was sort of interesting they were making movies like red sorghum they were not communist movies or more you know movies of kind of sociological movies of of the life of a peasant that were real and good but there was also the whole huge

00:30:40 propaganda and the Chinese are very smart about us we don't we have no idea about them but they're really smart about us yeah and they knew that the important movies to infect MH were those big action movies that 16-year-olds are going to and that everybody goes to all summer Marvel film that all those films the villain even to the extent of that that John that Tom Cruz movie you know Top Gun the most recent version you don't know who the villain yeah you don't is I mean could there somebody could be a ran

00:31:19 but you're not sure they never use the word so the whole thing is has been reshaped for that money talks yeah money definitely money definitely talks and you know from the outside looking in and I haven't been in Hollywood or anything like that uh I I see it as as very fake and uh fake in the way fake but strategic as in um what they're saying a lot of times they don't believe but it's strategic in that it's meant to influence Society in a way that isn't necessarily beneficial for the United States uh I couldn't agree more and it's

00:32:02 not just Hollywood it's the media too the media do the exact same thing yeah you I mean you looked at those guys that the man and the woman from ABC at that debate last night what were they really standing for obviously they were tilted so far to to to cala there was comical almost but why do they do that what's their what are they what's really what they really thinking what do they really think do they think that her policies are good no they yeah you're saying no I go say they the policies are absurd yeah

00:32:39 so uh they they're trying to I think it's all engineered toward preserving their own wealth yeah Power and creating a kind of globalist society which they Invision themselves to be kingpins in yeah well it's really smart when you think about it like you know pretty much everybody in the media is on the left I mean there's obviously like Fox is not but the the rest of the media is very well Fox is is equivocal because you got the management of fox is not ex is not you know some of their You Know M Maria

00:33:17 bomo they people behind the scenes and you see them all I think that these days Newsmax is a little bit more better but yeah Newsmax I actually I I haven't watched much much of it but there's some other ones I mean that that are conservative type Outlets but I'm saying you know for the most part mainstream media is on the left and you know watching them last night it was subtle like my girlfriend's not involved in politics at all and we're sitting here watching it and you know it was influencing her and I'm having to walk

00:33:49 through like hey babe this is first of all what she said isn't true and I'm like trying to break it down but you know I'm thinking about her for somebody who doesn't have uh you know big interest in politics and just she's trying to learn from the debate Etc and it was influential yesterday it really was that's a that's a that's a scary thing to hear it is uh because you you got up close personal how it works on them yeah and and you know my household my wife and I are very much in sync on these M however

00:34:21 the the real scary thing is what we just refering to is they don't really believe this stuff right this is a power grab and but and it's a power grab that makes it all the more shameful in a way that Trump didn't put his fing he could have said that yeah I mean that would have ricocheted across the country yes uh uh instead of saying that was my best my best debate ever yes right you know typical Donald Trump just you know and that those type of comments to me he loses trust from people because anybody

00:34:58 watched that maybe there's a few people that just thought he won but there's there's no way he got destroyed and um you know he did some uh to me Camala I was trying to look at it as objectively as possible you know uh she was highly prepared and that's what you got to do if you're going to she was verb unprepared I I don't think what what stun me about it is I I I think that Trump if been paying attention who could have easily contradicted there was nothing very imaginative in what she was saying in

00:35:34 fact there was nothing that wasn't totally predictable yeah absolutely that that that was what was so shocking is you know when I say she was prepared she knew what she was saying and she stuck to it and you know they knew how Trump was going to react or at least they could bet how Trump was going to react and so it was easy but that's part of preparation when I was training Fighters I would have you know Fighters go in and be highly prepared for a fight and you know stick to the game game plan this is

00:35:58 what you do and um you know the ones that are more prepared would win and she was just prepared uh if if Trump would have had the same prep as she had and actually listen to the people around him uh he could have picked her apart but he got you know I was it was cringe word watching it last night yeah well you know I I you may be right you may not be right because I'll tell you why he might might not not be what you were watching was Trump thin skin I mean it's not like that he doesn't know these things I mean

00:36:32 he says them all the time I an item in his speeches yeah so it's not uh none of this stuff was mysterious this is so that's the way that's what made it so crazy making uh and you know part of it is I don't know I mean I'm not a psychiatrist but but he I mean he has what he has is an inability to distinguish between what's important and what's not yeah and I don't know if you could prep a guy with that you could remind him of it he said don't fall the Trap but there were people all over the Internet and I am

00:37:16 assuming in his Entourage who was just trying to say to him now don't sucker for all the crap you're going to be getting which is precisely what he did oh it was yeah he talk about talk about kind of blowing it like go it was so many opportunities that he didn't take advantage of I mean for us watching we're not speechmakers right I mean I'm sure you've spoken in public I've spoken in public but there's a difference between that and being giving an address as a president or candidate I mean I I'd be a

00:37:48 little nervous however however uh right it was like a situation where you could the proverbial truck going have been driven through it in this direction you know was what he did with Biden at the the debate with Biden I actually didn't think that debate with Biden was that bad of Biden and what I mean by that is we have been seeing it for 18 months you know him kind of stuttering and having issues and uh it was really it shows you the power of the media when they decided that what we had been pointing out for

00:38:23 so long was uh important um and and seems like a setup really yeah I I think it was but it might not be partially the media the media is always on the side of the democratic party yeah but I think that they the Democratic party itself and Pelosi and those people may have decided let's get them out there because we want to get him out yeah so was their point they work together actually but didn't it seem obvious you know for the last couple years that he wasn't going to be the next nominee oh yeah people

00:38:57 were saying it all over the place including Trump yeah he was saying it he's not going to be the nominee yeah and so there was no shock at that no and um you know the idea that you have the Democratic president or the president who happens to be a Democrat uh get knocked out in July get out of the race in July don't have a primary for uh you know the party's nomination and she is done one interview with Dana Bash just one interview and now the debate and nobody's actually pressing her Trump didn't press her but

00:39:37 it's wild to me that people are taking the bait as well like no Cala is the best ever she pulled horribly uh previously yeah I mean and she attacked Biden famously in the in the debate in debate yeah I mean I think part of it uh is one of the great tragedies in America today and that is incredible divide between men and women I've never seen anything like this I think I was very involved in the beginning of the feminist movement with an ex-wife and we liveed next door a lot of famous feminists I met a lot of

00:40:16 them uh and they were all uniformly Angry women I mean that's that that we can say but but but you know they had a point back in the 60s you know equal pay for equal work things like that you know that's just basic civil rights stuff nobody who cares anyway it was all done and and then all of a sudden we've got this situation where all these that this whole election could be run on what I think is one of the most false issues there is and I haven't written about this year but I'm going to write about it I'm I'm in I'm

00:40:56 expecting to be killed from many quarters I I think that abortion is a phony issue and I'll explain why I mean that yeah I was going to say why why I I'm I'm pretty much anti-abortion I mean I go I can see the science now uh the fetuses are at an earlier and earlier date are able to experience pain and so forth so we we I get the picture that life does begin at the moment of conception I mean why wouldn't it anyone else I mean scientifically I don't understand why anybody says it that's when sperm

00:41:33 eats eggs and forms new DNA that's a new person but and so I'm I'm I'm not for abortions obviously I'm not for murder I Believe In The Ten Commandments okay that's pretty simple stuff actually uh but the is evolved into this incredible issue of invasion of people's bodies and blah blah BL blah no it's not I I mean the situation I think Trump is actually right on abortion but they won't listen to him okay it's okay in in all those exceptions of rape and incest and and a serious danger to the mother which is

00:42:12 always a weighing of One Life versus the other and that's it I mean and and what's interesting in that is I think that the European Union they have a whole law on abortion that's essentially the law what is yeah what's what is it European Union's law I think that's it I mean I have to get I have to go and look at it the the other thing is that the the Mississippi law that uh created uh the the whole roie Wade revote was pretty much of the same thing that's all they wanted yeah so it none of this stuff is like radical in

00:42:52 any way I mean and yet women and men are being driven part of this issue yeah 12 weeks in Germany Italy is 14 uh France and Spain are are 14 um and you know my my thing I don't I don't know what the right answer is I've gone back and forth um on abortion uh you know obviously these late term uh abortions that they are doing by the way they try to act like it's not being done it is absolutely was done by the the governor of Virginia exgo of Virginia did it y yes he and he talked about it very very openly um but

00:43:36 you know there there's this idea that I was talking to my girlfriend go back to my girlfriend uh I consider myself more pro-life she considers herself more pro-choice I'm shocked when we broke down though the amount of time she had she thought there was a the cut off was lower than me I'm like well actually you're more pro life than I am and uh you know we're kind of going back and forth but I think that the debate has gotten so either pro-life or pro-choice we don't really know what it means and most people don't think about

00:44:08 this they just think and and in truth the other thing that's interesting is all this yelling and screaming back and forth the number of abortions don't seem to VAR no very much very tiny amounts yeah a and I mean who would deny for example who would deny an abortion to an Israeli woman take by Hamas and then raped by a terrorist absolutely okay absolutely that's an extreme case uh um but that could same thing could happen in a in a you know more less unique version in a street quarter in America right but so

00:44:47 yeah I I I would never you know the other thing about abortion is a lot of people I've never faced abortion that I know of uh and so everything I say about it is effectively academic and I think that that's true of a lot of people yeah I mean unless you've really been up against it what do you really know about what you do that's that's right yeah it's uh it's a it's a touchy topic that I hate that it's gotten so polarizing I understand why the pro-life activists are so passionate about it um I don't

00:45:24 think it does good when they call people murderers and those type of things because you're going to immediately close somebody off so much and and I believe for a lot of these people it's a hard decision and you know it it was really hard for some of them and let's say that they feel horrible about it and and and they're open to changing views and actually learning and talking about it and you know having that conversation but when there's like oh you baby murderer you it's like that's just this

00:45:52 hate that's coming out that's not actually going to get people to do less it's going to make more people embolden to do it more and more you know I hate to say it because on this issue I'm very libertarian which means I don't think it should be in the government period yeah uh I don't think marriage should be in the government yeah I think I think people's private as much of people's private lives are are in their hands it should be in their hands it's funny I'm not saying as a former uh Paul I can see that you probably agree with

00:46:30 that oh yeah no absolutely I've had funny thoughts I'm like oh what if you do like a 5-year contract with a you know a little contract extension here or something I I'm not really I'm going to get married but you know I've kind of played with different ideas on how would this work if you did you sign a three-year deal with with your uh with your wife I'm a Christian too so I mean it doesn't work in that but I'm just thinking of different ways in society that could be creatively done but um no I don't think

00:46:57 that government should be involved in marriage I don't think that uh the government should be involved in Education Department of Education I would want done um I don't think they should be involved in a lot of things you know on a local level I'm more of like I'm more liberal I think in the cities is where you can do the most for the people state level I'm more Republican National level I'm more libertarian and um and I wish more people would at least consider thinking like that not saying that my way of

00:47:24 thinking is the right way but instead of just being you're either this or you're and it's because it doesn't you know we can do the most for the people around us that are closest so if there is government involvement that needs to happen I think it should happen at the local levels get involved in the schools get involved in you know the the planning and those type of things but um you know this one size fits all you've got to be a Republican or you got to be a Democrat it's just like I'm I don't I

00:47:49 don't want to be a part of that uh I don't either as a matter of fact but I don't want to be an independent either I think Independence are the against phonies no yeah I mean you listen to these Independents on the radio sometimes they're really funny to hear uh first of all almost always they're totally low information M so they they don't know they understand the issue at all but what what you start to realize is a lot of them want to be Independents so you pay attention to them so they will make their decision at

00:48:22 the last possible moment so you pay maximum attention so I'm thinking what that I was thinking about that last night watching the debate because I Wasing how many people out there haveen made up their mind out they're going to vote this thing not a lot yeah it can't be a lot it can't be a lot I mean um it's uh it's interesting watching Camala right now and those that are supporting her knowing that she pulled lower than anybody any other vice president in history um knowing that she just wasn't well-liked and see though

00:48:58 how quickly when the media turns towards somebody and props them up people buy it and they're like Yay she's the best like really have you she was like correct me if I'm wrong I believe she was the most liberal voting uh person in the Senate when she was yeah she had that record and know and and she had that record in a in in Spain we could say because uh it's her job as vice president to casted a sighing vote so she was the one who casted a sighing vote on a number of things that were even Sten mhm so you

00:49:36 know no she has a record yeah that you know again I don't want beat a de horse where it was Trump on that I mean but it it it's pretty obvious um also what you're saying is really really frightening about the media yeah because I think that a big Bell you know Hollywood everybody likes to hang on Hollywood okay but you don't you can go to a movie or you don't or you can turn off the channel yeah no absolutely I'm you know I'm thinking of thinking of uh I'll try this on your piano here thinking of writing a piece uh urging

00:50:12 people who are conservatives I don't mean cons when I Define a conservative in this issue I mean anyone to the right of trosky to to uh boycott uh the networks because I I think the networks have a malign tremendously malign influence on our society uh they've been monolithically um this kind of it's status Li liberalism I don't call them really they're not really leftists they're they don't believe in communism what it is they're purists yeah they're they yeah they're globalists yeah and so I I now this is a kind of hard

00:50:57 boycott to do particularly for men because men like to watch sports I mean I like to watch sports and not as much as some guys but I like to watch it yeah and so you got have find way a new way to watch sports maybe this fuboo network or something like that yeah but the other you're not missing anything else if you want if you obliterate the networks and you know and you can't expect the government why do these people 2 four and seven they've been 2 four and seven since any of us were born sure absolutely I mean

00:51:34 all will use is I I I was born into it yeah and and the influence of that dwarf's prda I mean it's like and it shouldn't it it has to go and this last night's display by those people which was so was beyond belief U should be to something like that yeah I think people watching um you know people like you or I who follow things closely you know we were catching it but I don't think the average person would have caught what they were doing and how unfair it was I I beged it different I think a lot of people did

00:52:14 really it was so extreme that I think that I mean look we don't know yeah neither of us know to the extent uh it's a difficult thing to survey sure uh and having when I was running PJ media I actually did some polling and I learned something really awful about polling when you call the polling company because we didn't do it we used companies you hear on the other end not explicitly but in the intonation of the other person how would you like this to turn out yeah and so you you can these things are

00:52:56 so manipul it's it's silly yeah so it's uh I don't and so I don't know the answer to our question of how many people real I've never seen a case that was as absolutely blatant yeah so I think it's at some level people get these no I think they do like I'll keep going back to my girlfriend because you know she's trying to learn more she's wanting to like you know it's good I'm try I'm not trying to influence her by the way I want her to just figure out things you you know uh oh better that why we

00:53:29 because she didn't really figure it out then yeah and she and I know that she didn't get it I was having conversation with her afterwards like hey well did you see how they're saying this and I'll set her up like hey they're going to say this next watch and so this is how it's how it's working but I want her to make a you know uh an opinion on on her own and yeah I know she didn't see the um commentators uh the the debate hosts doing what they were doing and it was obvious and infuriating to me but I

00:54:01 don't think and and I was you know kind of looking at the internet and just kind of seeing the I think I kind of got grazed over yes people are saying it but um I think people are so used to being these are professionals this is what they do it's propaganda they're influencing societal thought they have control of the algorithm on uh online and uh you know I think it's the biggest thing that we're battling right now is waking people up to what's what's really going on cuz once you you know take away

00:54:34 the veil it's like who you see yes but you know the my thinking is this is an opportune moment for people in our shoes to call us out because there was a very good illustration yeah and and so that's why I'm thinking of doing it now but the because something times it's too subtle yeah then you know that's more dangerous maybe yeah but but but this is a good time to to mention it because the examples are pretty flagrant yeah absolutely um uh in your book I know best uh you argue that moral narcissism

00:55:15 is tearing apart uh America can you explain how you see this playing out perfect segue uh you know that's an interesting thing because that book came out just be I was was on uh Dennis prager's show talking about it Dennis is a Haiti guy and he said wow moral narcissism what a great phrase this is going to be a the phrase of the age and then two weeks later uh we heard about virtual signaling now there's similarities between virtual signaling and moral narcissism but the difference is that virtal signaling is what a moral

00:55:53 narcissist does yeah and that and other words what I was trying what I pointed out that book in on almost every issue I mean from global warming to race and so forth that what people say is what is what makes them happy not the results of what they're there's a deliberate disconnection as the moral narcissist doesn't care at all about the results in fact doesn't notice them and the other thing I try to point out is that by being a moral narcissist you join what I call the American nman clur if you if you know what a nan clur was

00:56:38 what went on in the Soviet Union under under Stalin lead names means name list in Russian in other words you get to be on the name list here and it's good for you in many ways from getting a mortgage to running a business to whatever it is you do or being in the media or B in Hollywood or etc etc so that's that's what I believe oh I should this isy no it was a scam believe it or not anyway uh so that you know I'm very proud of that book actually even though it didn't do as well commercially because of the

00:57:21 Advent of of virtue signaling which is a simpler way to describe it the moral narcissist term better though because it really puts it you know in I do too because I came up with it let's bring it back or bring it up again you know you know who loved it was Rush limbo okay and he read sections of the book on a I'm I'm the I have never had my email and text light up as it did when he did that did you know rush I met him once to shake his head I didn't know him Goa uh the uh uh but I think he was a remarkable

00:57:59 person because he did what we miss in Trump he was never he he always kept things at a kind of humorous lowkey level where you could see his eyes rolling yeah and he was he was a real genius Communicator yeah he was he was a he was a beast he was a beast he you know he pushed initially more of a um what would I call it uh a neoconservative view of of the world so did I yeah well a lot of people did yeah I I just wrote a uh a piece for the American Refugee substack about that because it it was a piece about why uh

00:58:49 why Cheney and Bush hate Trump and this is directly about the problem of neoc conservativism and as a mop I I have may cul on neoc conservativism many times so it wasn't my first time sure because I I I realized long ago although not perhaps as quickly as Trump that the Enterprise of the Iraq War was a big mistake y so as therefore they hated him for life and so that's what I was writing about it's not about any of this January in fact there it it's it's that he' trash their legacy MH correctly correctly and yeah I'm no

00:59:34 doubt that that Russ would have revised his opinion the reason I'm saying that is that it's a time of the beginnings of the Iraq War we were all seduced by a big a big fallacy there were small fallacies like Saddam has weapons blah blah blah those kind of things or he was involved in 91 he wasn't all those kind of things but what the f the the major fallacy that motivated me and I think many others was if we put down people like Saddam in a vicious War uh the Middle East will turn into Denmark right happen that that was the

01:00:16 dream yeah uh shako and they would you know you know well that was idiotic they just the enemy to fight harder ultimately harder it they it's a tribal culture y you don't trade it it's a tribal Islamic cultures yeah you ever read the Quran don't probably not most people haven't I have but anyway it's all there yeah and you know the the idea that something like that that is imbued into tribes at Birth virtually I mean from you know very little young age is going to be changed because some Gringos come

01:00:59 over with bombers is crazy well I wonder I believed it for some reason yeah well no I mean a lot of people did and you know it's uh on both sides of the political absolutely well you know what they did in Kuwait in the early 90s they put that girl up uh in front of Congress saying that she had seen the babies you know taken out of the incubators and slaughtered and this and that it turned out to be like the ambassador's daughter it was complete propaganda they light us into that one too yeah and so you know

01:01:29 you look at these instances I kind of Wonder I ask the question sometimes I wonder if the the neoconservative movement is more dangerous than Isis to us because they can get us in a lot more trouble um if someone doesn't have that philosophy of uh of you know uh going to creating world wars and where we're the policemen of the world I mean you look at Trump's philosophy he got rid of Isis really quick just with common sense with a new way of thinking oh yeah no if you're going to fight a war fight

01:02:00 it and win yeah hopefully in 3 weeks and that's it that's right don't get and you know the Ukraine war I think that that what Camala is is that roote a neoconservative oh well the neoconservatives are now in the Democratic party yes Bill Crystal whole crew mostly yeah and and yeah I could see that when she was talking about being strong in Ukraine and all that nonsense uh when any I spent a lot of time in that part of the world I've been in Soviet Union a couple times and I was you know on these writers exchanges and

01:02:39 stuff and I was down in the Crimea when I was in the Crimea in the in the in the 80s uh everybody assumed it was Russia I mean this is before at the break of I mean you would I was taking to check off's home obviously a Russian to ra Min off's home also a Russian I mean they were it was I was surrounded by KGB uh I think it was Russia I mean and and they asked me you know they're try they're always trying to corrupt you they asked me if I wanted to go to Odessa which is technically Ukraine I didn't go cuz I want to get

01:03:26 home at that point and despite the fact that I had family that came from Odessa but uh you know that whole part of the world goes back and forth constantly I mean since prehistory I mean in that sense when when Putin was on Tucker show and created that big consternation uh he was partly correct I think I mean his vision of history of course was uh history according to Putin however it is true that that part of that world flip flap flip flap flip and you know the difference between Ukrainian and

01:04:05 Russian and I mean have they people all speak both it's yeah so you know there's so many outliers in the story that we don't know about uh the possibility that that we had put bioweapons research on the on the kmean border I I don't know the truth of that I me I'm not in a position to find out yeah but but you know they they when you listen to cala she's just buying Partyline nonsense and you know who knows what she even knows yeah or or even believes you know exactly it's like what it's hard to even tell it's you

01:04:46 know uh that's what's kind of refreshing about Trump because you know he's prone to a lot of exaggeration but you know he at least says things that his gut is pretty that that that is the best part of trump is his gut y I mean that's why I'm voting for him I'm voting for I met Pony was a guy who last night he went on and on about he has enough people at people are not leaving my I've got the biggest crowds they don't leave they say you bless them in I I I'm one who turned it off because I wanted to watch the US

01:05:19 Open yeah good um you mentioned the American ruling class uses crisis uh to control uh give some examples of that well uh you know what game the biggest thing ever is co I mean Co is probably I mean RFK Jr who deserves Knighthood for pointing that out but so do a lot of people I mean there were a lot of people on the EP TI I was working there Robert Malone and those people were doing fantastic work I mean it was so evident that we we we had this uh experience of some friends of ours from Bolivia visiting

01:06:05 our house in the middle of it here at Nashville MH and they were doing a tour of America the GU Bolivian and the wife was uh my wife's new roommate at Princeton okay so they came they stay at our house great people they live way up around coochi Boma up there in the in the Andes and they do good works with the natives and all that they're really good people anyway uh they took they had an experience of Co it was fascinating they said that when it hit their area of Bolivia nobody could afford the sh the

01:06:42 they couldn't afford the shots and people were having great deal problem so finally the government went and dropped hydroxychloroquine and um you know the other one uh uh ior meon ion plus antibiotic uh on in everybody's house cleared up everything wow it's not it's not surprising yeah it's not surprising and there's but all over the the third world they had better results than we did well so uh you know I own a hospital group in Mexico and so we ran I think maybe the first pilot study on ior mechon with our

01:07:26 employees um as a prophylactic preventively and um out of the staff that took it uh 58% that didn't take it got covid zero that took it got covid and I wish I would have set it up uh correctly and publish been able to publish but we didn't um but uh I mean that was that was the first uh kind of you know idea that we had and I was debating with our scientists um and a lot of them like I have very very high level scientists working for uh for us or we have very high level scientists working for us and uh different heads of

01:08:02 NIH at different times and Etc and we have different views but we debate healthily like it should be done in my opinion and so uh one of our scientists uh and I uh were going back and forth at iorm for like a year you know via email healthy conversation I would send him an article he'd send me an article and he had sent me uh an article of a metaanalysis of ior mechon and it was there was a a Pharma PhD so PHA do and PhD uh uh that he had fored me his email and he said basically that this evidence

01:08:43 is so big that he thinks that the the hospitals will be sued for not allowing it and so when when Michael sent that to me he's like hey just check out what he said and you know Michael was kind of moving his position about a week later Rogan Joe Rogan got covid and the media just clamped on it the mob went after ior mechon uh later um you had uh Cochran did a met analysis that said they actually didn't say it didn't work they said there's no evidence that it does which is different and um they're I mean actually I I somewhat

01:09:23 agree with their with their method ology I agreee with their conclusion I understand how they got there but um because they just disregarded anything that wasn't a very very solid study if they that's what they wanted to do like that that's that's that's their deal but it was so politicized and there was overwhelming evidence that Ivor mechon absolutely did work a lot of the studies there was one in Nashville uh that was uh NIH funded it I think they gave gave uh Vanderbilt like $70 million something

01:09:54 crazy I and I to go back and look exactly what that was they were doing it with Duke and during the study testing Ivor Mech and large patient cohorts during the study they changed their primary endpoint at the end or in the middle of the study primary endpoint at the middle of the study and showed it didn't work if they would have stuck to to their original primary endpoint it would have showed that it was effective and so we saw a lot of that well you know uh my personal experience the whole thing was that at the very very

01:10:29 beginning I took the shots mhm the reason I took the shots I was I because I'm a reporter among other things I felt I wouldn't be allowed on planes without it I turned out that wasn't true uh after that I never took another shot I still haven't taken another shot at all of any kind flu booster nothing I have never gotten I uh uh Co I did do one I I have also not had a cold in three or four years I mean I've been just amazingly healthy as wood here y but uh I did do something I took What's called the Zeno protocol you may

01:11:13 have heard of that uh no ah well a a doctor in in New York state named Zeno oh I I do remember him now yes a rabbi uh who had who lived with a group of hium up in up in New York state they're pretty insular and he noticed that the people were getting Co pretty seriously up there but he didn't trust the shots he doesn't he's very smart guy did a lot of research and he came up with a protocol the protocol was zinc quercitin vitamin d and vitamin C makes sense those things together you can find you can find them

01:11:55 on the internet now as the Leno pills anyway I I started doing it I never got sick nothing and there have been reports that it's actually good for cancer all kinds of stuff well yeah if you're V I mean vitamin D is a a a major yeah it's a major component yeah and quatin is the thing that lets the zinc into your cells so but you know we've been lied too about health and one of the big villains is of course vanderbild whoa and I I came of the things that I got censored in the epoch times is related to that uh uh I was

01:12:33 working with Michael Patrick Ley when we came up with a lot of stuff on the on the shootings at uh here at the at the school and at at the at the C school and what the most interesting thing that was revealed they they revealed her Manifesto was just the crazy ravings of an anti-christian anti-human nutcase that you would expect her to be to go shoot six people so it's totally unilluminating or 90 pages of just you know Madness but what what is interesting was that for the last 20 years she's been a patient of Vanderbilt

01:13:15 psychiatric now there's a law in Tennessee as in I think almost every state but vast majority that if someone is a patient and they say they have violent fantasies toward themselves or someone else M it is supposed to be reported to the police this woman did it numerous times and the Vander psychiatric never reported it to police got six dead people now why didn't they report to the police I have a very big theory on that it's not a theory I'm pretty certain that's what it is they were administering all kinds of

01:13:52 drugs to her to do with making her content with her transition which is was female to male mhm uh it's incomplete all the the drugs she gave her they gave her including what's notably incomplete they some people say they never even checked was the amount of testosterone she'd been taking uh it is my contention and I believe this is so and I'm not a scientist I'm just the Layman of Layman although I did grow up around them is that since the human body is known to have some 30 trillion cells M we look at

01:14:37 each other my God it's hard to conceive of that yeah almost every one of those 12 is either double X or XY daating denoting female and male that's what those cells do do if you take a number of drugs that are aimed at at overcoming 30 trillion cells m at some point you may be putting your body on tilt oh yeah like a INB machine and there's been a lot of apocal information connecting transgendered people to violence across the country and the left does not want that known yeah because the the essential thing

01:15:17 that they are looking for more than anything else is the death of the family yep that's and this is it the transgender movement is right at the heart of the family yeah and the fact that they don't research this the people at Vil psychiatric shame of them and I'm I'm Vil patient I mean you know it's a we're all TR trapped in the medical situation where if you have a serious problem I had one mhm I had prostate cancer I had to determine how do I want to have it treated I I have medical family so I called all over

01:15:58 the country and it turned out the guy here in vanderville they thought was the best okay so I went with him yeah and he did a good job M so it's not like I I I don't respect good doctors in my my general practitioners and had aille doctor she's very good but the actual but there's a lot of infection in the system mhm and it was it was outed a year ago I think something something like that when uh some woman there made a speech bragging how much money they were making out of transgender operations yeah I remember that because

01:16:34 once they once some one of those operations starts you have a lifetime patient yeah because it never takes fully yeah it was interesting during covid uh uh janger was the head of the covid task force in Davidson County he was a surgeon uh actually nice guy I like to as a as a guy uh I did a couple podcasts with with him and it was a different podcast than this format and um I was pushing it was a Nashville current podcast a lot lot in Nashville and uh you know the second interview that I did with them I had run the the

01:17:15 numbers and I knew I was looking in New York and in New York um there were I don't know at the time like 15,000 uh people under the age of 40 who had gotten covid and uh I think there were two deaths and so then I ran the numbers on how many people what what your odds are under the age of 40 to die in a car accident in America and I was like okay well I have a better chance of dying a car accident this year than I do of dying of covid if I get it in my age group and so I brought that up to him he's like I got to fact check you but I

01:17:49 didn't want to make him look bad I was like I but you know looking back cuz 2020 was a little scary like I I was almost bankrupt in my uh biggest company because of covid we were had some cash flow issues that were uh going on right when Co started like oh you a lot of people bad timing you East divy my house here we were allowed to do events at the time was doing weddings and stuff we haven't done an event in four years or official event in four years um but so I didn't want and the city had shut us

01:18:20 down uh and I had to give back hundred you hundred and something thousand in deposits and so I didn't want to upset them so much that they came after me right but you know looking back I'm like gosh I wish I would have just been vicious in that interview with him because he was so wrong on so many points of view it was kind of like did you see Joe Rogan and um what was the guy uh who's the CNN um the CNN doctor uh oh sanj dupa yeah sanj jup Gupta so it was kind of like Rogan and Sanjay Gupta Rogan's not a doctor scientist but he

01:19:04 destroyed Sanjay in that interview and just with facts just with facts and um but but I didn't do that and yeah I looked at how vanderbelt handled the whole deal and it was not based on science it was all based on fear they got people to believe it they shut down our city and uh I kind of vowed to myself never again will I do do that if there's an issue in the city uh I will be the loudest I I was still one of the loudest people scream after a few more months know sometimes it's hard you know it's the old uh song from that musical

01:19:37 Lial aduce L gisby is lar root of the evil and man yeah the gisby the you know cash I mean it's so obvious now to all of us that Eisenhower was right about the military-industrial complex and that we are right about the big Pharma complex I mean they're very similar in certain ways they are they operate the same way and it's really it's it's I I I had a medical appointment on something very minor this morning before I came over here at bville and you know I told the the provider quot hook that I

01:20:21 had become a very she she was saying U was I taking my Val sartan which is a a a drug used for for uh primarily um for blood pressure U it's also used for other things but but but I was originally prescribed for blood pressure although my blood pressure is super low because I play Trant three times a week so I have very low temps and I said well you know I've become very suspicious about all these drugs that I and she's going well you know it's good for your kidneys too you know it's it's water we're being sold things and and

01:21:05 the Layman that's just me and you I mean basically unless you're a um Advanced pharmacologist or something you're you're kind of at Sea yeah so you're you're you're forced into this stuff I I'm now looking in my medicine cabin in the morning saying no dad no no yeah and I'm fine well that's good well I mean a lot of it is if you've been taking stuff for a long time can't just stop those type of things but you know people should definitely if you're focused on health you know you should question

01:21:37 everything they just prescribe to you eat well and exercise and get sleep that's right those those three are like yeah that was are more important inro you're it really is it really is and you know society's gotten so used to take a pill to fix this take a pill to fix this and we were trained like that I was I was trained like that girl up like oh take a Tylenol here take this here take that there and so now it's like you know you look at some of these prescription uh cabinets for people they got 20 drug

01:22:06 they got they got this to take care of this but this this to take care of the side effect of that and it's like this you know NeverEnding consumption watch out for anti-depressants oh my go that's another story they may be entirely am myth yeah I mean what what are what are your views on anti-depressants uh you know in society today well I have never taken one m and I never will I I know the best thing for me when I'm feeling depressed if I can force myself to do it is run around the block yeah that's

01:22:37 right it totally effective because the chemical reaction is very clear and fast Yeah by by the time I'm going uphill after about 20 yards I'm feeling it and and the depression is where's the depression I got the hill and also all those other endorphins are shoot out into my body y uh you know with the anti I read somewhere that half of France takes anti anti really wow having spent a lot of time there I can believe it wow that's that's incredible I mean did you see the study that came out I think it

01:23:10 was last September or so showing that um depression really is not a chemical imbalance that's not a real thing well it sounds that sounds like a cognitive therapy kind of thing it was a it was yeah they they actually had a um a study that debunked what we've been being told and it was a big study I think it was like a nature or something it was a big you know study um and can you pull up that uh Warren put a study on um uh chemical imbalance depression debunked you know it's interesting I just read a screenplay by a friend of

01:23:48 mine people are frequently sending me screenplays for advice thinking I still have a conduit Hollywood which I don't but uh this guy's screenplay was a romantic comedy set in New York between a therapist and author of self- Health books and he he of course thinks therapy is ridiculous and she thinks he's uh a naive cilon who doesn't look into his soul and of course the script sort of favors the naive simpon yeah I think we're one of the problems of our society that has a tremendous political reflection I see in New

01:24:38 York people I know that they think that people who support Trump have a mental issue yeah and it's and that is reinforced by the therapy Community because they go in to therapy so I'm depressed at all these things about Trump I think therapist is yeah it's very depressing yeah I mean that's not exactly what they say but that's what they mean well my my view on therapy uh you know if you talk to therapists they'll tell you you know about a third they talk to some good therapist some some people with u logical Minds a third

01:25:14 of them are good you know twoth thirds are really bad and you know imagine if you've got a bad therapist kind of implanting uh bad ways of being to be happy into people's minds and we can talk about issues it's good to vent and have those that type of thing but if you just live in it over and over and over and keep bringing it up I mean you're going to be stuck in this hamster will of that issue the rest of your life instead of you know being able to move past it yeah you know it's very interesting because being

01:25:49 having been a Hollywood screenwriter I was naturally in a lot of therapy there was no I knew in Hollywood in those days wasn't in therapy I mean it was I worked with Woody Allen who was the greatest of all therapy patients it was said I I I never got to know him very well because he's kind of im a very u stand office person personally but he it was said of him that he went to four different therapists a week I don't I don't I can't speak for the veracity of that but it he was obviously therapized up the Wazoo and then he

01:26:28 ended up you know marrying his you know the whole thing is screwy yeah now so that gave me a different look at it I kept morning and you know so I had a variety of therapists and I look back on it I didn't get anything out of any of it except for one guy who was involved in BIO feedback who taught meditation at the same time he he did therapy and then I had the biof feedback uh you know implants in my ears you can see you see when I was in Alpha and that was interesting way to calm yourself down absolutely I think I think

01:27:09 meditation works oh yeah but uh but talk therapy and endlessly ruminating about what happened to you at the age of six I'm not convinced yet yeah although I love to read Freud he's a great writer right well you think about what therapy does in my opinion is it teaches people how to be a victim to their circumstance and that's a way to depression if you're a victim to your circumstances that have happened I mean if someone had something horrible happen molested at 7 years old you're 25 years old I can imagine I can only imagine how

01:27:43 horrible that would be for them but are they going to let that one instance ruin the rest of their life or are you going to take responsibility for your life at that point and say you know what this it's awful I'm not going to let it Define me I'm going to move past this and therapy just tells people oh you're okay for feeling that way and it's almost like it's become virtue signally in society or uh moral uh narcissism as you say where it's like oh look at me I'm you know I went through all this but

01:28:12 you know what's interesting about that thing of childhood trauma is uh because back to the Nashville shooter you know obviously from from reading her Manifesto Plus what we could guess MH she was subject to some kind of abuse at the school uh at a very young age okay this is something that happens to maybe billions of people across the globe I mean the amount of child abuse is I mean I know you've dealt with it heavily in your pedo stuff uh and justifiably because it's a horrible thing but it's but it's not just

01:28:54 epidemic Nashville it's epidemic globally it's part of the human race I mean look what happens in Afghanistan anyway the the if everybody who was happened that happened to went out and shot six people there'd be nobody here right exactly I something happened to this woman along the way and I think it was the treatments the drugs yeah that turned her from your normal if you can say that abused person uh into someone who is a killer absolutely and uh that's something we should always be looking at and

01:29:33 um I don't know where that leads but I I think responsibility of therapist is to do what the law says and the minute someone says I I want to shoot my ant uh yeah you better report it you better report that yeah I mean it does seem like we're we're living through like the oppression Olympics it's like people want to be the most oppressed you know biggest victim I'm the biggest victim no I'm the biggest victim the victim and it's a victim that's what it is and uh I do think you know good therapy for

01:30:03 people I mean like what Jordan Peterson talks about as long as it has personal responsibility behind it I think that's good for people because that is the way to happiness take you take control of your life you can give it to God but also take responsibility for your life and not blame other people for what's happening to you well my understanding of God is that that's what God wants you to do yeah absolutely so go to God for it like you know but not don't put it on it's nobody else's fault blame it on the

01:30:32 devil fine but not uh not me and um you know but but I think that's what's driving so much depression is ideology you're absolutely right we we have that the whole woke movement is based on uh a victim competition it is that's what it is that's it that's exactly what it is why are people more depressed than ever why you know are they uh are they so sad they it's because they're victims yeah that's that that when you're a victim when you define yourself as a victim you're taking away your power you're giving it to that other person

01:31:10 that's what that it comes out of what we were saying much earlier that people like us have a duty of positivity because your power and positivity you can't have power without positivity right they're not compatible what do you think okay so um I'm get a little off off the questions here but it's more philosophical um when I hear well-intended people on the left call people marginalized and oppressed and they go and they teach these people that okay let's say the world is it's a racist World um systemic racism all

01:31:50 these things I think a lot of them are well- intended I think they mean to you know we got to help the oppressed people we got to help the marginalized people but my bigger concern is I think this might be why we have such a big problem in our country is that the kids actually believe it because if they believe it they're going to be that which they believe oh I think this is absolutely true and I think there's I would add an element to it that I've been seeing lately and I hope I'm wrong a little bit

01:32:19 but I think the the left is essentially sadistic in in clinical sense because it's so obvious what you're saying is so such essentially obvious if you tell someone you know you're a victim oh really oh you know that attracts them in a whole bunch of levels and the person who did it is lying to them and why are they doing that there's a kind of element of sadism to it yeah absolutely I mean I mean you know I I I think the person I like the most I I've bumped into a lot of people running for office because of

01:33:00 what I've was doing the one I lik most as a person was Ben Carson because he got that cold and he lived a life in opposition to that yeah and and yet we have the Cala harrises who also never had a real suffering problem but now pretend she does like she oh that bus I was that kid no she didn't she didn't she she was privileged she was a professor's daughter you know let's get serious but but it's a game and there's a there's got to be an element of sism why are they doing it yeah well I mean I think

01:33:42 that people paired it and um you know it's the it's the moral narcissism or virtue signaling that uh really pushes that idea forward when I when I look at gosh what I think okay if I were black and I've had all these things certain things happen to me and I believe that I would I could easily say oh this was racist there's so many times and I'll do it now I'll put myself oh if this happened to me and I was black I would call it RAC I I not would but it would be easy to yeah you know and that's where we're at it's like and it's

01:34:20 almost taken because I I don't like real racist I don't want anything to do with them but they've almost taken the impact of those that are really racist away and just kind of thrown a lot of people in that bucket or you know in in many different ways they've taken the true evil and put that evil spreaded out on everybody else instead of just focusing on what is really evil we're all against racist we're all against uh you know pedophiles or anybody like that we should be yeah but you know we're not so yeah the the the but I I'm

01:34:57 going to investigate that cism element because I I it's interesting it's it's you got to find out what the reason for this is I mean you know some of it is obviously just power power control too think about this talk about how to control uh let's call it an uh an underprivileged Community you control them by getting them to believe they don't have opportunity you know someone who moves to America is much more likely to become a millionaire than someone who was born here uh why is that yeah because they see the American dream

01:35:32 there's so much opportunity here it's everywhere it's actually getting easier I think the world's getting soft and so like men that stand up and fight like we're like it's never been easier to be successful in America there's so many weak men out there I you know that's I've never heard it say it that way but I think you're right you know it fits in with that uh you know the what's been shown is the testosterone level has gone down it's been dropping yeah what what kind that's weird I mean it could be in the food you

01:36:05 look around and you see it but on the other hand how did it happen it it's U that that's part of that whole split between men and women now too the feminized male is just uh it's it's really I when you see it in a place like Nashville which you shouldn't yeah no uh uh I mean in New York and California it's become a predominant you know motor motor I mean but you know it's it's sweeping the nation yeah well the idea of toxic masculinity what is that yeah just these stupid buzzwords I mean the the

01:36:47 assumption is all men are RAC rapists yes I mean it's it's so absurd when you when you even look at you know when you when you look at things honestly even slavery I look at slavery obviously a horrible thing I actually started um kind of laying out different chapters if I to write a book on the history of slavery because I just let I actually just go back to the beginning I just been doing a little research um because I really want the argue I want I want to land though with people I want it to land to

01:37:19 where if they get it they realize it's not white people it's not black people it's not a it's human beings throughout history have done this for thousands of years well I mean SL clearly goes back before the Jews and the Egyptians that's that's that's the famous one that we have in the Bible but in preal times it was obviously going on with different groups yes and uh you know and blacks have done it to blacks everyone knows I mean the that 1619 project of the New York Times is beloved is just absolute propaganda yeah I you

01:37:58 know I I the New York Times I should come in here one time we'll do a whole thing on the New York I could talk about the New York Times for two hours and it's and it's it is pricious influence on America because I used to write for the New York Times so I did a couple of times for the book review I wrot full page essays and so but that in the 80s they wouldn't accept a word I wrote now yeah in fact they used to read review all my books very well you know from very good to excellent depending on the

01:38:30 book the detective series uh you since I wrote books from a conservative standpoint they haven't even reviewed them yeah but they're not uh you become there's no bias with the New York Times as they like you to believe there's no bias well wa that's why that's why it's so evil because people pretend that if if they if they just said uh we're a left-wing publication fine sure yeah the the the most famous the most famous case of of um fake news before the term existed in the New York Times quite famous quite powerful

01:39:08 my wife and I wrote a play about it was done in at the Beverly Hills Playhouse the the the I don't know if you know of a man named Walter Durant does that any no okay I I'll briefly inform your audience about wal D that they can look him up wal Walter Duran was a very Bohemian character who uh in the 20s and 30s who uh actually had one leg because he uh lost a leg in a train accident but he was a Brit and he and he used to hang out with aliser Crowley in New York and and take drugs in those early days

01:39:45 anyway he became the Moscow correspondent of the New York Times uh it there were only three or four correspondents in in during those times and during Stalin era um so he would became essentially the voice of the Soviet Union to America he was a pretty good writer he wanted to be a screenwriter he failed but he uh uh he he lived a very Bohemian life in Moscow uh had a um a Ukrainian wife that he treated that he cheated on serially but he was what he did was he reported to the New York Times misreported what

01:40:30 what Stalin was doing M the most famous thing that Stalin did at that period was the starvation of the ukrainians known as the hore which resulted some people think in more deaths of ukrainians than Hitler's Holocaust I mean it was a big deal there if you look at uh uh photos on you can see photos in the internet of M people walking around the Ukraine it looked like they're going to die anyway and did anyway he then famously wrote for the New York Times that this wasn't really happening much he said and anyway

01:41:07 to the extent that is happening the famous line was you have to make you have to break a few eggs to make an omelet and uh so this man was then responsible for uh Rosevelt he acknowledged it FDR recognizing the Soviet Union because everyone was pulling at at uh at Roosevelt and saying he was doing all these bad things Stalin and Roos Roosevelt said Well w Randy is writing from Moscow it's not so bad well that it's probably the most um uh effectual instance of fake news ever I mean it changed history

01:41:54 and later on um you know Roosevelt exceeded to Stalin in Yola and and said okay you guys can take Easter Europe interesting yeah it's it's it's interesting how the media can write something fake and it can change history like that they also did it with Cuba uh herb Matthews was their reporter uh in the Sahar my asro with Castro who wrote In The New York Times this man is a Democrat he is not a communist H wow so've heard that before Castro was welcomed to New York FedEd Etc and then the rest his history I didn't know that

01:42:41 yeah so the New York Times has had his figure on a number of these things I'm I'm a you know because I grew up in New York and idolized the New York Times and was to what for me my religion of a reformed Jew at that time was uh bagels and locks and the New York Times Sunday edition yeah synagogue not so much maybe twice a year but but but the and it wasn't just the Jews it was New York it was uh you know that's what we all and not just New York everybody in the media to this day the New York Times is look as the authority

01:43:25 even though they bull crapped up the woo about Trump and Russia and everything yeah but but they they somehow or other they're Teflon yeah no they are and they you know continuously lie and manipulate and Gaslight one of the techniques for that and one of the techniques for all of our mainstream media when they're Smart Ones is that they'll throw in some good reporting yeah they confuse you yeah curveball it's like oh here's a good one oh here's a trump here's a poll that shows Trump beating Cala last week

01:44:01 and it's like oh my gosh the New York Times it's kind of funny watching the the left get mad at the New York Times but um you know it's like it seems like all all a setup um so uh you were the editor at large for the epoch times for five years uh how do you think uh you being there helped shape uh you know public policy I have no idea idea I but but I WR you know I wasn't the only with there were several good people some of left like Lee Smith who wrote that wonderful book on Trump Russia collusion that was number one

01:44:34 bestseller for a long time the um uh you know we did what we could you know like when you they didn't edit me until recently so I mean uh I was getting quite a number of readers I could tell because they had a uh a system by which you would tell uh which op-eds of the week were the most watched which is of the mo most by clicks they and um you know I was always one of the two or three highest so a lot of people reading it but but uh what people do with what you write is very hard to know except that

01:45:15 you get lovely things I think you must get them how was that well you get people writing you a note or a text or email saying what you said is so right and I wish I could say it yes so that that makes you feel good y but but you those are always coming for people who already agreed with you right so you you have to keep that in mind also I get you know because I'm Jewish I get a few anti semites that's always thrown in and then I get other people who are adamant lefties will will say I'm crazy and you

01:45:50 know and how could I do this and I was smart 15 years ago but what are you saying now yeah but yeah I get that you know not that much of it not that much yeah yeah yeah that's that resonates it's so funny like you've changed it's like oh gosh I didn't really change yeah on purpose you know the whole thing about change is I'm pro- change the the the reason is if if you believe in democracy or de or Republic with Dem Democratic elections um you have to believe that people should be able to change otherwise just

01:46:24 give it up absolutely that's one of the things I I I love about Joe Rogan so much is that he will not just be like oh this is how I feel about it and not be open-minded he's always he's always open to changing his mind if he gets good information yeah no I'm interested one of the things you said on that I hadn't C to because I get so fit up with our city government here and you said that city government might be more valuable than than state and and National certainly uh I had never thought of it

01:46:58 that way no I don't know if I subscrib to what you're saying yet I'd like to give that some thought one part of it I I I know is obviously true is you can have more effect locally yeah that's that's a given almost but so you know I have these libertarian inss they want me to say screw it all yeah right exactly but but but uh it's it's a good approach and I'm I'm and I'm glad you said it I mean it it made me look at it slightly differently and I agree about the Rogan thing if you're not open-minded go away yeah you're a Bor

01:47:38 exactly other things you people are so afraid to admit that they they're wrong or change their mind and but I think that people will find if they openly do it they'll get a lot more people that appreciate cuz it builds trust too you build trust with people when you acknowledge when you were wrong you build trust with people when you acknowledge hey this is what I thought but this information came in and I think about it differently right now yeah I never should have taken the shots in the first place right well there you go I I

01:48:09 I admitt it completely yeah the my wife and daughter did not yeah my daughter got Co a couple of times but not very seriously yeah and my wife had never got it yeah uh my mom took uh mom and dad and we we talked about it as a family and uh you know I or we purchased a hospital in Mexico 9 years ago for my mom she was sick where in Mexico is it Tiana oh in Tiana just across the border just across the border yeah right across the about 30 minutes from the border um yeah I lived you lived in La so long in

01:48:46 the days when you could cross that border really easily yeah well you can cross it going in there now and it takes a long time oh yeah you know to go back me but um we had put our rhe arthritis in remission nine years ago um she was our first patient and and we had talked about as a family whether she gets it or not you know here's the pros and cons it's like well your rheumatologist isn't telling you this but there's a chance it could reactivate your ra and um you know but she had pre-existing conditions had

01:49:16 a lot of old side effects from the old medications she took before we got an remission takes a vaccine two months later after being in remission for 7 years ra is back full blast and um you know taking responsibility I'm glad uh you know we were able to make the decision logically we made the decision we got to live with it you know we're were able to get get it back under control and we're dealing with it again now um but point being you know we knew the potential risk and that actually what our what our fear was

01:49:52 actually happened and um you know that's a that's an instance too do I wish I would have made a different decision yeah I wish I would have but we we were taking the best information that we had at the time 65 and up was high high risk pre-existing condition she was in in one of the buckets that could have a bad a bad bad outcome um we had been working I'd been uh working with Scientists uh in mRNA for a while so I know a lot about it did not think it was ready for Prime Time by any means by the way other conversation

01:50:23 we could have later but I mean so you you make the best decision with the information that you have and it could be wrong and you can you can shift but you know I wish more people I really would those that are like listening I hope when if people are listening to our podcast we can actually have people be open to changing their mind and not being so rigid of you're in this box or you're in this box like be in a bunch of boxes you know well one thing about a form like you do here a fairly lengthy f is that your

01:50:59 guests if they if they seem rigid will make for a very boring show sure a and also it gives people more of a chance to explain what they think and the reasons for it yes because if you when you you know that's something I always wrestling with when I when I write an oped is that how much information should I be giving not just about My Views but what does the audience know about this and what what what when am I boring them because I because from my fiction and screenwriting background I fear Bor

01:51:39 boring people because they're going to switch it off so I have a I'm more of a fear of that than most people and more than I should uh but you're always wrestling with you know do you need to go back and explain XYZ the example being the fight over Ivor mton you know or and explain that you know the Brits you know in that fancy British magazine they attacked us and all this but you know it's it's you never know what what you're getting out there what who's listening or who's reading you just don't know no

01:52:20 and and you go with your gut finally but it's a problem but the more the I I I like your form uh but and what worries me is I'm I have ADD not that's not fair to say I I have my own self-induced add because I always have to be writing to justify my life y so I rarely listen to lengthy podcast yeah well Rogan kind of mastered it his is you know are 3 hours 4 hours yeah we cut ours up in Clips as well and that's that's what goes like a lot of them will go viral or some of them don't but you get uh you get the meat and potatoes and

01:53:06 then we have a lot of people that do you know listen to the long form driving down you know and convers conversation to me I like it because we can explain ourselves uh it's not like I told you before no gotta moments if something feels weird I'm happy to because it's not what it's about it's about bringing out thoughts and ideas that could possibly make an impact in the world and telling your story with your wisdom you for instance you you're 80 years old you've been through so you have so much

01:53:35 experience in life going from uh hanging out with the Black Panthers to uh being a Academy award-winning uh writer being you know changing path going from Liberal to conservative writing a bunch of novels I mean that's a great amount of experience and you can't explain I mean there's so much more we can get to and we got got to wrap it up here shortly but you can't explain that in five minutes you can't tell your story in 10 minutes you can't even do it in 30 or we're going on two hours we didn't

01:54:04 get everything in that could uh be told and um so you need that long form to uh be able to to do that and not be mischaracterized what you're saying too you know no I I I I totally agree I'm I'm having fun being here for that reason yeah um I've had some long form interviews you notably with u with PBS book chat show uh but they usually they they run one hour still be and I I I walk out and I say well wait a minute I forgot to say that yeah no that's that happens all the time it'll happen this one too I'm sure

01:54:48 if I did 6 hours I forget yeah so um yeah you said that believe substack is the future for writers um I I that's a little bit self-serving because I decided I'm going to give it a shot but uh there's a famous quote from AJ lebling who was a New Yorker writer in the in the 40s U which I've always loved and that was and I think you'll understand it immediately that is freedom of the press is guaranteed only to those who own one ah yes y absolutely and you know you get to a certain point and you think I want to own my own way my own

01:55:34 means of expression simply because I don't believe I'm in sync with anybody or I it's not because I don't like them sure uh and not because I don't agree with them 80% of the times or 88% of the times it's because in order to be authentic and I think that that the substack movement and there's also these things called locals which is pretty much the same uh it in is encompassing that uh I mean you could write things on Twitter and so forth but they're just like they're too brief and they're and and they're just you know

01:56:17 subjects for really stupid argumentation I mean I I was uh I I was blackballed on Twitter for some time for reasons I have no idea what they were yeah uh this was pre pre Elon Musk and uh I finally got back on after he came in of course and I realized I don't like this it it was all like yelling and it wasn't even interesting sometimes it's good when when uh let's say there's an a terror attack in in Moscow and you can go online and get some quick info that may or may not be correct but you get you're

01:57:01 ahead of the press yeah but uh that's about it to me I I uh I think the substack place and what what that what that does is evolves communities and I'm trying to generate a respectful Community I some something I think you're similar to what you're doing yeah um I I I'm a writer to the core we'll we'll have some podcasting and videos we my wife and I both had a lot of film experience but but we're going to mostly write because that's what we do I mean if I don't write something every day I'm I'm a depressed

01:57:40 and angry person that's my way of of the only two things in my life that make me calm me down writing and Tennis say tennis I heard about uh no that's so hiking is good but but uh and food I'm no more than that I'm a positive person but uh yeah that that I believe the substacks are going to are really starting to evolve Barry Weiss's substack the Free Press uh with she's got some very good people writing for her like Douglas maray from the UK and we're probably going to bring in people but we're first

01:58:21 going to do our own thing for for a while MH because it's it's a big deal because at the EP of times um I evolved the big audience but they didn't give it to me so now I have to start at Ground Zero which is an interesting thing at 80 yeah uh because I I did uh you know the the PJ media was my company so everything was me yeah uh I was the boss sort of yeah but as in as in every case the CEO is not really the boss the boss is the money yeah and the money sometimes interferes with what I wanted to do there but it was look everything

01:59:01 is good uh you learn from everything and U I am uh more of a believer in God than I've ever been part of that is being ad I admit it the other part though is learning and I am convinced that every one of us is here for a reason and that my reason is to write love it and I better keep going otherwise I'm betraying God on some level not I couldn't maybe that's not the right word I'm not what I'm not doing what he wants me to be or he she or it wants me to do it's interesting that you think about that because I was given a gift I'm not

01:59:43 a bad right I'm not you know I'm I'm not William Shakespeare I'm not kidding myself but I'm a decent writers they go in this country M at this moment I mean when when I was just in Africa you know we started our blog with an African safari uh write up I was reading the great Safari writer of course Ernie saming way as I was flying around on Bush planes in the middle of Tanzania and that dude could write yeah he absolutely could he really could but you know when you read that you realize you got something to shoot for mhm and

02:00:24 so I'm always very cognizant when I do uh the Entre and the substack and I think I'm going to be I I have suspect I may be better than ever this time awesome I hope so because if not why do it you got to get better and so I'm going to shoot for a dual thing being that are very related to being as truthful as I can about what I feel and think MH but to express it elegantly in the way that Papa did as they called him or as he called himself in the Green Hills of Africa which is the book I was reading I hadn't read that one I'd read

02:01:03 a lot of his novels but the Green Hills of Africa is sort of halfway between a novel and a journal nice yeah I haven't haven't read that um I guess in closing uh I actually to I'll let you finish it off with with something in closing but I want to ask next 10 years in the in in the United States uh where do you see the future going ask me in November yeah uh I think we're on a razor edge H but you know taking two steps backwards and maybe a scissor step and whatever sip those games we play as a

02:01:50 kid he's got the whole world in his hands as Melia Jackson famously Sayang and just always remember that even the morning of November 6th if everything goes the wrong way he he didn't go away yeah absolutely and I think it's I'm I'm saying that for myself yeah but I'm saying it for anybody listening who cares to hear it y that because part of me I said I always joke around with my wife that well if things go wrong we can always move to Israel or Argentina because I'm a great ah M great lover of aier he's a

02:02:33 fantastic person I love that gu better than I can Hebrew so it might be smart to go and I love steak so why not yeah however uh probably not probably none of the above probably I'll tough it out in Green Hills yeah uh and that resonates with me because it's you know we can get into like this you know the the Earthly world that we're dealing with but I I lean on God constantly I mean a lot of my decisions I'm like okay what should I do here God just kind of lead me in because sometimes did you do that when you were

02:03:07 younger no no I know I think it's a Natural Evolution besides that you know but it takes a certain amount of maturity to start to realize and a certain amount of humility yeah as our company's gotten bigger and there's more responsibility some of the stuff is so heavy it's like I couldn't do it without praying couldn't do it like you know it's like God you got to guide me because I when you're in the medical realm particularly it's life and death all the time all the time and so um yeah God does get me through that and

02:03:43 I think that's good advice for uh you know for the world uh as well um anything you want to say in in closing to everybody just an advertisement for myself let's hear it the advertisement is go to American refugees. substack docomo it's free it's going to remain free for a while I think because eventually we'll probably have to monetize a little bit in listes considering we live in an erratic stock market but but uh we're not going to do that for a while because I want we both my wife and I want to build up a a

02:04:19 readership and there'll always be a number of free things on there we're we're not uh the responsibility of the thing is such that we we really want to build this community of people who are willing to think about things in a serious way I'll I'll say one more thing to explain the title uh the the the book American refugees as you mentioned earlier in the in the show uh is primarily about what it means and what happened when this Mass migration occurred from uh blue to Red States but it is our contention and my

02:05:01 contention that we are all refugees in America now so we're refugees from the America that we grew up in and remember so that is why we decided to name the substack after that book not not so that it's not just for people who moved from LA to Nashville we welcome but but it's for people who are living in San Diego and and and living wherever and in I get a lot of writings from Europe and Australia so they we're all kind of refugees from that dream and so that's where the title comes interesting

02:05:44 um do you want to ask you one more are you friends with uh or do you know like Matt taibe or gr Glenn Greenwald uh no no uh I've read them for life but I'm not friends with them but but they're great examples of of uh of of this movement yeah reminds me what you're thinking there because they're always authentic to what they're not bsing yeah and they write well you got to do both yeah extremely courageous writers taibe he took a beating it's it's so funny he was like a darling of the left for so

02:06:21 long so is Glen Greenwald well you know I identifyed I'm older than taii but I wasn't only only the left a and you know you got to go with the flow you have to of course what you know that I mentioned to you an old song called backfield in motion which really dates me more than you you know backfield in motion was one of those black guy great good song you can you can certainly find it on YouTube yeah but but uh the that's what happened to our culture I mean you know yeah the famous speech about that Reagan said

02:06:57 about I didn't leave the Democratic party the Democratic party left me are it's true with me too it's different to democratic party because re different generation sure but uh I I'm the Democratic party of uh the kennedies yeah not that I entirely improve of them but we're that's another show well Roger thank you so much for uh coming and hanging out and um uh maybe in a year or so we'll have have you back on and have another great conversation I really did enjoy it oh I did too yeah thank you very much thank you