00:00:00 immunotherapy was considered quackery we would have never bought chipsa if we believed the mainstream but we knew they were full of [ __ ] we are being lied to about a lot of different things immunotherapy for cancer is a game changer for hundreds of thousands of people period millions of people if you extrapolate this over decades all of those people end up living or presumably the people that live will live as a response to that treatment people just don't typically in my experience rent and Rave about their experience at a

00:00:26 hospital but they always rant and Rave about their experience at our Hospital everything down from the people the food I believe that that contributes to some of the health outcomes because there's a positive attitude or a positive experience associated with coming and receiving treatment healing and care we have figured out a way to provide a service model that leaves people feeling good about being in a hospital and that's a game changer over 9 years ago we bought the hospital in Mexico together uh looking

00:00:57 back on the entire project mhm what is the biggest lesson uh you've learned the the biggest lesson that I've learned over the last nine years since we've acquired a hospital in Mexico is be very very very very unbelievably if if I if I think that there is a way that my mind can be closed I need to think again be very open-minded be very open to how things can be done not sabotage success by asking how too early and and be aware that the what is Ever Changing uh a friend of ours would say a moving

00:01:41 Target and be very very open to these things be very open-minded I think before this I thought that business success had to look a certain way and and follow a certain sequence of steps and this has taught me that that is absolutely not the case and if I apply to other areas of my life other business ventures relationships and just being very open and accepting of what we are doing and and very very even more open and accepting of how it can be done than than great things can happen what's been

00:02:15 the biggest surprise for you over the last nine years of owning a hospital the the the biggest surprise is for me um would be how different the outcome can be if the service model is different if that makes sense outcomes and what typal outcomes the the patient outcomes it I think the biggest eye opener for me is how well-received our former patients are and how they speak about us how they talk about their experience at the hospital everything down from the people the food people just don't typically in

00:02:53 my experience rent and Rave about their experience at a hospital M but they always rent and Rave about their EXP experience at our Hospital yeah and I believe that that contributes to some of the health outcomes because there's a positive attitude or a positive experience associated with coming and receiving treatment healing and care that you just aren't going to get maybe maybe different organizations don't take the time or maybe they're just ineffective at what they're trying to do but somehow we have figured out a way to

00:03:25 provide a service model that leaves people feeling good about being in a hospital and that's a game changer uh what do you think it is that we do different that makes people feel good even if they're not getting let's say a result you know with stage four cancer uh you know someone could not respond to our treatment but generally they leave very happy why is that I I think that we do an effective job very early on of not allowing people to lay in victimhood and and and feel victimized by their disease or their situation

00:04:00 or if they're caring for someone and and what's going on with being a supporter for someone who is experiencing a disease we do a good job of at least calling attention to that now now individually what you would like to do with that is of course on you uh but I think we do a good job in calling attention to that in a way that most organizations of any kind would not address victimhood when people you know emotionally we want to say that oh we kind of feel sorry for someone because they're going going through this and

00:04:31 that may be true but maybe that isn't what they need right now M right and maybe that feeling sorry can maybe contribute to people feeling like a victim of this when what they need is to be empowered because they have a long journey to fight this disease right right and we do a good job day literally day one when you arrive at the hospital of of beginning to chip away at that yeah Shine the light on it call attention to it because in life with things that occur they're going to keep occurring MH and and and victimhood is

00:05:03 the most demobilizing thing that a person can do with a long journey ahead of them I couldn't even imagine looking to climb a mountain that seems insurmountable and feeling like a victim at the base of the mountain we'll never get to the top right we're never going to make it so helping people overcome that uh even it seems small uh but I think that is actually huge and and why people are like well maybe maybe I should think about this a little bit differently or approach this differently and take some

00:05:34 more ownership of what the outcome could be absolutely U and again opening our minds to how this could look might not be what you thought when you first got here uh and maybe being a victim isn't going to get you where you thought it could be whether you're intentionally or unintentionally doing that I think our ability to speak to that is a a big differentiator for us how do you think that translates into uh life and other businesses oh well for me at least you know I had never really been a part of a

00:06:07 business that addressed mindset directly to the customers where that was not the business itself right like right you know you've got you've got speakers and things like this who that's their business is is providing that service to the guest but I had never been a part of a business where that was not the core thing that they were offering that addressed it MH and spoke to it so so that in and of itself like imagine if restaurants or other businesses where you wouldn't expect this type of empowerment actually provided that as a

00:06:38 part of the service that you were getting right how much different would your experience be how would you look at that organization the owners of that business perhaps if things weren't going well for you would you not personalize that and say hey these owners are people too because they took the time to address something that most people are going to overlook and I think that plays a lot into you know my my growth in this is I'll never have another business where I don't address this with people

00:07:06 my customers directly period right cuz I see how they respond cuz we're not perfect because I took the time to help them or assist them in that way right so it's always now ingrained in me in different areas of my life to like hey you know be be mindful of this yeah uh and even in real estate and things like this I have one-on-one conversations with tenants and we talk about empowerment and we talk about hey you may be in an affordable housing program but the the goal is home ownership M right you're not supposed to sit here in

00:07:38 poverty you know I'm goingon to give you a chance to buy this house if you like it right you can't be a victim and expect to just reap the minimum of society and and and Propel it's just not going to work that way right now I'm I'm I'm going to have this conversation with you but it's on you to take action Y right and and we've see that in the participation rates of people who are in that one business that one Venture and taking what I learned in this Hospital environment and I see it I'm like you

00:08:06 come in you get in the voucher okay you're getting assistance and to a certain degree you feel like a victim and you don't really feel like progressing more because you're receiving some sort of benefit from this victimhood and it just doesn't work right it it doesn't work you know yeah it's interesting because you know I don't think we could operate our business in Mexico if we didn't set the uh expectation and the standard of what we expect mhm uh where we expect the patient to come from and what I mean by

00:08:37 that is you know we are going to make mistakes it's healthc care they might not get the outcome that they want uh I think a lot of times people's goto you know with that is oh well you didn't do X Y and Z and we as you know put it all on the table and say this is what it is this is what it isn't you know it's easy to become a victim to this treatment didn't work right and if you can see that you know that we're laying it all out right now right right right uh if you want to start working on your mindset and working on being

00:09:11 personally responsible and empowering yourself to get through this right we want to stand with you but uh you know we don't allow our staff to take abuse so either it's interesting you know that you're that that this is what you brought up because you know we have probably the most loving staff but than a lot of companies if a if a patient is being absurd we put them in their place too so it's like a it's weird because we're we treat people with the respect we expect to be treated with yes and we

00:09:43 let them know what that is upfront right so when someone let's say is getting out of line we acknowledge it in a in a in a in a fine way but we we deal with it and a personal responsibility from us and Them it can only make everybody better because the experience yes is better for the whole group and cancer uh emotional cancer spreads like cancer how many times have you heard like have we got let's say you get a complaint from a patient that you never get before and all of a sudden four patients are bringing it up you're like

00:10:21 oh yeah oh there's something there they're talking about something there MH it's interesting how how how that works but when you get everybody aligned right right and what is the vision of the treatment for everybody right I mean when it's flowing man it's beautiful yes yeah effective communication is like a contract right and when we when we thoroughly go through this informed consent of not just what you should expect from treatment but what you should expect from us us yeah absolutely then we can always reference back that

00:10:57 agreement right and say no no no no no we never said this or we never said that yeah right we're very clear with those expectations of not just the treatments the people the care what we expect from you MH right A lot of times people don't have any expectations placed on them at all when they're receiving service other than to receive it and shut up right and that's not how we operate no you know if you look at the the traditional Healthcare model patients are confined to their rooms almost 23 hours a day or

00:11:32 longer perhaps 24 hours a day that sounds like prison right that sounds like we're going to put you in a room you're going to be checked on periodically by people who you know perhaps are overworked they're going to spend a minimal amount of time with you yes they care yes they love their job yes they're committed but the the nature of the business model doesn't allow for the same amount of personal time let's get to know you remember our contract when you start having those days remember what we talked about right that

00:11:59 you know the fact that we can even reference that and we can you know you know gently or or firmly whatever is needed reference and place a person back on track yes right cuz that's the ultimate goal is we want to get you back on track cuz the way you're thinking right now you're not on track right right the the direction is over here and you worried about the wrong [ __ ] right you need to be back on track that's it so uh that is something that we do very well uh you know I look to to emulate that in other things and other areas in

00:12:29 my life not just business but with people it's like have these conversations on the front end like let's be very clear what the expectations are you know what do I expect from you whether this be a friendship some sort of Ro romantic relationship whatever let's let's have that conversation upfront and be clear and if we need to renegotiate let's be clear that we are renegotiating those terms right it's not you don't have just agency you know it's called Boundaries right like we so that that has been a

00:13:00 you know I've I've known this my whole life and I I think subconsciously because of maybe how it was raised I lived this way to just you know be you know be clear with people be direct with people you know I I've always intuitively done this but I prior to this business vure I had never systemically applied these principles as part of the operation like like every customer has to go through this point so we could set their expectations now and see the outcome of how much smoother everything run I mean I was there before

00:13:30 we were really addressing this oh gosh do you remember what the was yes we had uh you guys had left I maybe had come back on like a two we had been working almost every day since the hospital reopened and there were I don't remember how many people had come in and we thought okay we kind of got this thing let's just take it wasn't even it might have been a week maybe not even a week oh yeah it was a 4 day Utah health seminar that Scotty and I went to right right so you know I come into the hospital and there's just this

00:14:07 big Uprising and there's this couple that they're flipping out like they're they're whing out they're causing what amounts to an Insurrection inside of our organization they're trying to get patients to leave all because they didn't receive their weekly calendar right and I said this is the chaos of misalignment when people aren't put on track early on their expectations not set right they're not there's not a like but then the moment that we did it the moment that we were like let's just get some some sort of effective orientation

00:14:42 in play every I mean I have never really seen one thing be implemented in a business that's had that much dramatic change yeah other than like like that was just like immediate like oh wow okay this makes the business 50 times easier to run now right right just by setting that clear expectation on the front end so I remember that I remember what it was like before this and I think those those that have been uh we we talked a little bit before we we started recording about all of the different Evolutions that

00:15:15 we've gone through as as owners I think even before that day before the first orientation that business was gone and a new business was birth that first orientation in many ways that was also created a new business because it created a brand new customer experience opportunity so yeah that's a good that's a good point I mean I remember the first orientation I gave the orientation made a PowerPoint and the first thing that I said is if anybody promised that you're going to put an IV in your arm and your

00:15:47 cancer is going to be magically cured raise your hand right and we will write you a refund check right and knowing that nobody ever said that but uh you know a lot of it was giving him orientation uh acknowledging the objections that they might say that we said right and saying you know this isn't true every objection that we could think of we would go over just to make sure they're they're clear because you know people that they're going through a tough time they might uh they have cancer emotionally they're they're going

00:16:19 uh through a lot and sometimes they just forgot too you know it's like let's get it all straight do we all have you know the same understanding in a group so everybody can see it together like we're not hiding anything so that way if someone in the group said well this person said this this and that it's like no you know at orientation we went over this in in great detail um and then you know I think it was building the classes right do you remember when we started building yes the classes what what was

00:16:50 the first class you could remember we did uh so so one of the first ones that we did was uh your treatments explained besides the power to mind was was was a class and orientation M um the treatments explained was actually I thought ingenious because you know the patients coming in a medical tourism environment have all day right and if you don't speak the language you know there might not be abundance of TV options you really don't have a lot to do and we just doubled down on education and the treatments explain was cool

00:17:22 because it allowed patients in kind of a classroom setting to ask General Health questions to a doctor mhm right in a way that maybe they wouldn't have felt comfortable with with their own oncologist or primary care provider sure they could just ask these questions well how does this drug work or how does that drug work obviously individual situations are what they are but in general what are the mechanisms what should I expect in general and I think that that did wonders for helping people understand and have a better

00:17:52 understanding this is this is life is a long road and sometimes just knowing the questions to ask and having a a good basis of information to ask the right questions can get you the best outcome and I think that that class along with others nutrition classes the cooking classes with Manny I mean they they help arm the patients for conversations that they would have about their situation or their disease when they were talking to other people and not feel so victimized with ignorance right you're now armed with enough information

00:18:31 to ask a good question and and get a different perspective right which is which is what you want right you're talking you're getting a second opinion you're get a third opinion from a doctor because you want a different perspective not because you want everyone to sing the same song Right unless that song is you're cancer free then in which case yes we're celebrating but you want a different perspective about treatment but if you don't even really know that the questions to ask mhm or you you aren't even confident enough or

00:18:57 empowered enough to ask questions mhm you know you GNA get more of the same right absolutely so uh I think that was a big one outcome wise and we kind of heard it a little bit um in after care when we're we're following up with patients and you could tell that they're going back home and like trying it right they're trying it with their doctors they're trying it with their providers and you know everybody doesn't like to be questioned everybody doesn't like certain direct questions so right you know even hearing

00:19:29 that oh so and so's doctor you know kind it could sound like a a push back when you're used to just kind of spe information and if if someone unfortunately had a provider like that you know if you walk into their office one day you've got a list of questions and you know maybe they didn't read your file or maybe they didn't read it as thoroughly and they had planned on coming in and you know spending 11 and a half minutes with you you know just kind of running through a checklist and sliding on and bilding your insurance

00:19:58 but you stop them and you start asking questions yeah what wait what who told you that who Tau you to ask that uh so that that that gave people the ammunition and the armor to take more control over their lives to not feel like they're being kind of tossed to and fro by the Health Care System asking questions I think it got a lot of respect from those providers who do care right because oh this person has actually taken an interest in their own health as opposed to coming in and expecting to receive a pill um they're

00:20:31 asking questions about nutrition they're asking questions about lifestyle and whether the physician agrees with one position or not they now are you know speaking directly to something that's of interest to the patient that maybe they wouldn't have even you know in that in that 11 and a half minute or 12 minute exchange they would have never talked about so it's huge yeah that's a that's a good point I I was thinking about questions they would bring in and you know one that uh we always encouraged people to

00:21:00 ask their oncologist back at home was is this treatment pallative or Curative right and a lot of times people didn't know but chemotherapy for metastatic cancer um if it's not testicular cancer uh pretty much is always Pala it's actually always Pala I might be off on like is still no that's that's not uh stage four uh still Pala um the immunotherapies are cured of now but you know for the longest time the patients were thinking the doctors were giving them this chemo with their metastatic cancer and they could still be cured

00:21:41 right yeah no it doesn't happen nope and so um that was always a fun one to ask now we've seen uh a change in cancer treatment over the years yeah uh because you figure you know 2015 immunotherapies weren't very popular I me right some of the checkpoint Inhibitors had just been passed but the doctors I mean we brought in a oncologist from MD Anderson and he was very D like oh they're not going to work and you remember that um and uh I like the guy but he was he was just wrong about that but you know we really

00:22:14 saw a change from let's say 2015 when we purchased the hospital yes to 2019 2018 when the immunotherapy started getting right uh used a lot um what do you think that change caused within our organization okay um the the the mainstreaming of immunotherapy first of all is is a win for everybody y right big picture a win for everybody um what changed inside of our organization because of that is you know organizations aren't people but let's just hypothetically say our organization was a person MH you know

00:22:54 nobody likes the I told you suye right but there is a there is some quantity to being right all along M about something right and so walking that balance as an organization was saying hey you know what we were doing um even even in the Legacy ownership of the business before us what they were doing and attempting to do was an immunological response and what we are doing is an immunological response using a combination therapy how do we Embrace mainstream science which for decades said that this was everything from

00:23:32 ineffective to outright query now embracing it as mainstream therapy when we've been doing it the entire time how as an organization do we receive that now that there's an Awakening and not be that I Told You So and be you know the the response that we had was let's take it to the next level let's focus on even more you know if if it means for the next 30 years we get to be ahead of the curve like we were for the last 30 MH before science wakes up to this reality then so be it right there is a place for

00:24:03 people to come and they can receive these things and they know that there are thinking people who are supportive and open-minded to how we can arrive at a destination yeah and and what that destination could be so uh the mainstreaming is a blessing um we didn't tell you so uh but we were doing it for a long time we were doing it so uh I think that um sinners like Tam now have more of a foothold in Immunology because it is newer even though many of much of it is based on relatively old science it is newer to the marketplace

00:24:44 and it's probably more effective for a smaller institution to be able to be a pioneer as opposed to a space where if we wanted to for example change the marketplace of Kemo therapy that would have been almost impossible mhm right but Immunology was so open and so broad that you know there's a lane for different types of thoughts and thinking and it's not just cancer it Immunology affects so many different diseases that the research and the science that we start over here could have significant implication over

00:25:18 here which could have even more over here and that was just really hard to do in in kind of like the the the Legacy model of cancer treatment where you know it's chemotherapy radiation surgery that's it those are your options and that may the you know God forever be in your favor or whatever like you didn't really have a lot of room to play with in that space I mean can you imagine Dedrick when when you really look back at the history of cancer therapy from the late 1940s up until 2013 pretty much the only options were

00:25:55 chemotherapy radiation and surgery and if you had metastatic disease with a solid tumor it was never Curative I mean occasionally uh something crazy would happen but the oncologist labeled it Pala of therapy right like there there this is not Cur of therapy we're trying to extend right your life uh why do you think we went so long uh with that mindset you know I think that there's like a convergence of factors that that play into why as a society we will hold on to you know therapies that maybe

00:26:34 aren't as effective as newer technology there exist you know some some lwh hanging fruit to think about our like economic interest you know drugs being sold for one purpose that would not be sold under another approach that impacts somebody's bottom line period yeah so there's that um second is you know not not Insidious but people get set in our ways right I think all of us doing you know if you have been trained educated you've seen good and bad results as a physician or provider using a particular

00:27:08 method that is known um perhaps you might be the of the thinking that what is known is better than what perhaps is not known or what is not as well known uh and I think that there was a lot of weight given to the thousands and millions of cases that had used the Legacy system whether regardless of what those outcomes were it's known right as opposed to going with the unknown which you know for many people intellectually that's very that's frightening M uh I think that's another variable uh I also

00:27:43 think that some of the leaders um you know of Cutting Edge technology aren't always the most popular people in the the circles that push ideas forward yeah right right and and there's there's some personality associated with that as well that I think allows for like you know decades and decades and decades it's like perhaps most reasonable scientists would be open-minded to another approach but maybe wouldn't go on the record or stake their career behind it right because of oh man this this is going to

00:28:21 hurt people's pockets now you got all these doctors that say no what about this and then you got these weirdos over here like what what do you you know how can you you until it becomes mainstream right until it's cool and accepted it you know science I've seen to a certain degree kind of has a little bit of a bandwagon element to it until something reaches a certain Tipping Point it's really hard for other thinkers to want to throw their hat behind it yeah you know and I understand the need for

00:28:48 intelligent criticism um but you know Immunology itself isn't new right and Immunology with cancer isn't new and there there's been data and there's been cases is and regardless of how much more effective we think Immunology is it deserved a broader conversation for a longer period of time than just 2013 2014 in the last 10 or 15 years it has deserved that and for us to just be arriving here um you know better late than never right the the prb is the best time to plantet tree was a thousand years ago second best time is right now

00:29:24 so here we are yeah you know it's it's interesting because like Franco marincola who's our scientific Advisory board he was chief of infectious disease and IM genetics for the National Institutes of Health um you know he said you know what I used to do just 15 years ago wasn't considered real science and it's unbelievable to think about because you know immunotherapy was considered quackery for I mean just up until really 201 right 13ish right uh and it really hit mainstream and the oncologist started to believe it in 2018 that's you

00:29:58 saw that's when we saw the big change at our hospital and you know it makes you look Le makes me look at everything right like what are we being told and I look at because imagine this dedric imagine we would have bought chipsa and well we would have never bought it if we believed the mainstream oh of course yeah I mean that wouldn't we wouldn't have done that yeah there's no way but we knew they were full of [ __ ] yeah I mean really they were're they're lying this stuff not working there is data you know they say the data

00:30:32 says this but you know we have papers and data that say just the opposite you you dig into the history of William Coy from 1891 to 1936 the father of immunotherapy in the textbooks today right had a higher success rate treating many cancers yes than we do today this is with his monologues right so his his daughter Helen Coen kns uh founded the Cancer Research Institute 1952 off of his work right and for years they said it's all [ __ ] it's all [ __ ] and look at it now right yeah yeah I mean it's uh it it it you know taking a

00:31:12 step back and looking at the history and the timeline which I have done many times over the years is you know I I think to myself is there's something that that I'm not seeing is there's something that I'm overlooking because again I'm not suggesting that for the past 40 to 80 years we should have just switched to Immunology I don't know if that would have been the appropriate thing to do what but what should have happened would have been a more open-minded approach by the medical and scientific Community to embrace these

00:31:42 ideas earlier yeah so that we could be further along at this point right I think many of the people who are champions like you talk about Dr marle he knew at some point that Immunology would have its day in the Sun the question is when but the earlier we start the sooner that day happens the faster these uh Therapeutics make it to the marketplace more lives we can save yes right that time is money right that time is you know we can we can sit here and and and and talk about this but someone whose family is dealing with cancer and

00:32:16 they do not have access to the treatments that they need they don't have time for mainstream science to catch up they don't have time for America to to to get itself together and debate all of these topics and all the journal articles that is important that's unbelievably important but what if those things already existed M yeah exactly right and they they existed and they existed they definitely existed I mean when I look at it you know I scratch my head because I I'll hear Franco you know tell me stories about

00:32:47 the in the 1980s at NIH you know he's working with Steve Rosenberg Steve Rosenberg is the biggest Pioneer in immunotherapy uh at the National Cancer Institute uh ton of respect for him if it weren't for Steve Rosenberg I don't think that we would have a lot of what we have today um but you know he told me the first patient was a melanoma patient they treated with il2 and the very first patient got really sick but they cured the cancer and he's like we found a cure for cancer oh my gosh we found a cure

00:33:19 and the next nine uh died wow um from the the cancer or the treatment combination I2 is very toxic yes and uh for those listening I2 is is an immunotherapy MH and um so but he said that one made me know that it could happen and we had to figure out the mechanisms uh that caused that remission and um we did have K's toxins though even before that I don't think Franco necessarily knew about that KY was hard to make and well actually you couldn't really patent K's toxins which is a big thing you couldn't patent it so there's

00:33:55 no money in's uh but um you know the best adant vaccine adant CH toxins in my opinion I mean for for cancer specifically I don't know about for other other things but um you know when you look at the history and you think about the the impact that could have been made with something like Coy's a consistent batch even in combination with chemo therapy you would have actually had some legitimate cures absolutely uh it wouldn't be a thery with metastic stage cancer you would have had some real cures in there oh

00:34:34 yeah and um I mean they had that from since 1891 the system The Establishment system attacked him I mean if you look at uh James Ying the Ying saroma uh comes from James Ying he was a major proponent of radiation and he was CO's boss at Memorial Hospital which is now SLO ketering mhm and they buted heads and he wouldn't let them do it after a while and uh you know you think about the money and the influence that went into to suppress what he was doing right and you know then you think about what's

00:35:13 going on today in society and so call me a skeptic on everything right right right right right and people think that we're you know very like uh you know with what we do that we just think stuff's going to work like no we're actually very skeptical stem cells we probably the most skeptical stem cell company operators in the world like you do not make a claim we not like we want to see we pull the data um and it happened to work really really well but um you know big picture uh these things were um we we are being lied to about a

00:35:52 lot of different things and there are Market forces and you know governments and people that might not want real you know cures to be out there and the immunotherapy market has kind of messed that up for cancer oh big big time so so you know and thinking thinking at this very very high level about this and and some of the forces that would want to suppress or dilute or confuse um you know we have to think that okay now that the mainstreaming of immunotherapy is happening mhm and we will receive those

00:36:31 outcomes individuals families will get those outcomes and and those outcomes will be longer healthier lives and if one of the forces that potentially did not want to see this is of the mindset that we need to control the growth and the spread of the human population and something like immunotherapy becomes mainstream then what is the con R what lever do we have to pull does that person pull now who okay maybe that thought was in action maybe they're in a position to constrict certain things either in government or as the captain

00:37:10 of industry or wherever they're at what lever gets pulled now yeah right immunotherapy for cancer is a game changer for hundreds of thousands of people period millions of people if you extrapolate this over decades okay all of those people end up living or presumably the people that live will live as as a response to that treatment those people presumably because of these restrictions would not have lived mhm if you of the mindset that we want to control the population what you going to do now right you know that's what's kind

00:37:40 of like where you know where is the other curveball coming right because this was 120 year old medical beef that started this right right and it could have been corrected at any point between then and now scientists doctors knew this right we're okay now it's mainstream great great for people great for Humanity great for America now what right if there are still thoughts and people out there who want to control this the the expanse of our population how they going to do it right right well I mean you think about um how sick uh

00:38:17 our society is like physically you know with with what they eat and all the Obesity all the diabetes all the heart disease at Young ages um you you think about what is in our food I mean that's then probably I'm not sure this is correct but I would guess that diet is the number one cause of course of cancer what we eat uh even if you have a some genetic factors the epigenetics of the environmental factors of what you put in your system uh probably have more to do with someone getting cancer than

00:38:52 anything and so it is weird that we have the food pyramid you know from the 1960s 1970s and you have nutritionists that still want to act like that is legit it's mind-blowing it's mindblowing I mean it it really is sick care and we we we we give people bad things we give the kids in schools horrible food uh none of it's organic um has a bunch of pesticides glyphosate all of this different stuff going into our systems and so yeah I mean call me a conspiracy theorist at this point but I don't believe they want people to be

00:39:36 healthy no no if I honestly if I had not had this experience on in the hospital I'd probably be with the masses of you know in my understanding and almost to a degree a defense of the status quo sure because you know I would know I would be ignorant to what what the real alternatives to this are but but you're 100% spot on I mean we see just with the detox of people just just with addressing that right we're not even talking about any Therapeutics that or or or pills or shots or IVs or anything

00:40:10 just detoxing people the change in their overall health oh my gosh is unbelievable yeah and the only thing that's changed is the fol I mean I mean that is that is as clearcut of a example in my opinion of how toxic our food supply is yeah and it's a massive cost for concern um you know I think that we place a lot of trust on food regulators and I think that at least since Co some of that trust perhaps has eroded away um and I think that that might be a good thing to start questioning our food questioning our food

00:41:01 supply uh questioning processes and how food is handled and how livestock are raised and handled um yeah I have the Good Fortune to own um large expenses of land and I'm I'm frequently approached by Outfitters who want to you know grow anything from pigs to Quail or whatever and um you know I haven't taken any action on any of those offers because I've asked CR critical questions about food handling and procedures because yes I understand that my role in this would just be someone that's land leasing this

00:41:39 to you and you would do your thing and I have no part in the operation but I actually don't even want to contribute to the poisoning of people if I know that's what you're going to do right I'll let it just sit there and be vacant yeah right we can cut the trees down maybe make some money that way but it in knowing that this is what's going down yeah right I know that you're not going to be using techniques uh I don't know if that's the right word for for growing Livestock in a way that's going to end up with a

00:42:08 healthy product at the end right yes why would I want to participate in that well right and I know what the food situation is so right I mean if you were just a capitalist that just wanted to make money and not have an impact then that would be your answer um we just turn down I say we dedric because I haven't told you that I turn down a a multi-billion dollar deal for us but ethically I turn down a multili I'm going ride with your values because I know part of part of why our partnership works is values yeah we have shared

00:42:41 values I know that if there were something to come my way or your way that just truly was against our core values you know whatever it is you don't even have to tell me to D it doesn't even matter like whatever it is I'm like I hear a billion dollars it's like kind of hard to walk away with that at the same time it's like values are possible to walk away from yeah right like I can't walk away from my values absolutely I can walk away from money I can walk away from relationships I can't walk away from my values I got to sleep

00:43:07 at night absolutely um that that is indicative of why when we have these you know conversations with our patients on the front and that's values absolutely that is that is values that is US wanting to express ourselves to you like this is who we are yeah this is just as much of us telling you who we are as it is you getting an orientation right and when you see that and it it spills over into all these other random situations that we have you know money comes and goes right it happens absolutely we do

00:43:41 just fine I mean what's interesting when people try to explain or when I try to explain our relationship with with you and Scotty and and myself um how I just brought it up to you on this podcast is literally how we bring up a hey by the way turned out a big money deal but all right yeah I know it was good like you still hearing this like it's a lot of money because they package these things up in a way that obviously makes it appealing yeah right cuz otherwise who would take that deal yeah uh so they have to like sweeten it

00:44:09 to kind of numb the effect of the value erosion yes right but we know each other so well I knew you wouldn't care like and people were like well shouldn't you go to your board and talk like yeah I mean yeah but yeah I don't I mean I I'll go to you but I knew that it wasn't something that yeah you know we would do and it was just we know each other so well uh I could just tell you that right now like by the way gave a billion dollar deal and also it helps that we get situations like this fairly frequently

00:44:43 so it's not like there's no scarcity right right in these situations and I think that that's important to note as well is that's a value yeah is not being that person that thinks well oh we going to walk away from this there's never going to be other opportunity as good actually they keep getting better yeah absolutely they keep actually getting better over time so uh having that uh makes it easier to have values right and not being in this mindset of there's not going to be another or we'll never get

00:45:15 another chance or anything like that that that's that's values that's mindset right that's being in the right like frame of mind to know that not only will I get an opportunity to replace what I just walked on it's going to be bigger and better for me and everyone around me y uh that's the one that I take there may be two or three more that are bigger than that that I don't take right before I get the one that I'm interested in that takes courage right to be able to stick to your guns on values because so many

00:45:45 people are compromised uh it takes Clarity to know what your values are um because there's often a play on ignorance and some things are some propositions and some business deal are so complex that you don't really realize you're being violated until you're already in mhm right that's true you got to have some clarity to be able to see through that on the front end to say aha this is where I have to make a big compromise that's probably outside of the scope of what I would really want to do y we

00:46:14 we'll pass right on the front end the first 80% of the way man this is awesome oh but then this is the compromise this is what Scooby-Doo reveal like oh no we can't do this so having that Clarity and the confidence to just walk away from it and honestly I think people who make these propositions themselves might not even be aware that there there's a value conflict and I don't you know having an empathy to know that they're not doing this intentional I told them I said it I there's no judgment towards you yeah

00:46:42 just from a value standpoint ethically I just would not feel good with myself and uh uh you know I I can pretty much speak for Scotty and dedric that uh they're going to fill this way too and um but you know it's it's the the business world the stem cell world that we live in there's a lot of opportunities that we might not align with ethically that we're not judgmental towards them for doing it no um but it's uh you know it's not worth us compromizing our value if we don't have our values DED matter what do we have

00:47:17 man we we we we become Hypocrites yeah immediately the moment we begin to compromise our values when it comes to important things important Partnerships important collaborations because how can we sit in front of that patient on their first day in our hospital and have an honest conversation about getting on track getting in the right mindset the power of the mind being vulnerable having values all of these things that we talk about how can we do that and we're not even practicing ourselves right we're

00:47:51 making personal compromises that affect the whole business the whole team yeah right how can we even with any real Integrity have those conversations with people we can't you can't you can't so it's so important and that's the thing about you know I think good Partnerships and which I mean I don't take it for granted having you and Scotty um as as partners but you know being able to have two other people that I 110% trust and know are going to back me up no matter what and I'm sure you feel the same way and Scotty feels the same

00:48:26 way it's uh you can move mountains when you have that alignment and trust with two other people who are smart as hell have their own unique strengths and can move [ __ ] uh you know together right uh it's I wish other people would build that trust to experience it with people yeah it it's funny because uh uh Randy Davis one of our mentors one of my good close friends and mentors he talks about how rare it is that our Rel reltionship thrives at a high level and he says you know I've been doing this for all of

00:49:02 these years you know I've been doing the seminars and coaching business owners and he's like under normal circumstances I dissuade people from these type of Partnerships because typically there is a misalignment in values and at some point one person their values become Divergent from the group and he says what you guys have is very special and unique because that has not happened your your values are so closely aligned and you trust each other so so much that you can function collectively and independently as a group Y and build

00:49:32 something amazing and you know he still probably wouldn't be an advocate of these type of relationships because he understands human nature yeah uh but we are those outliers we are three people that you know have opened ourselves up to a relationship like this yeah um and and and went with it yeah right and and and one of the most uh from the uh I'm going to use the word interesting ways possible in buying a hospital in Tiana Mexico none of us speak Spanish none of us you know we don't have any real ties

00:50:04 to Mexico or anything uh to to attempt something like this uh requires an exceptional level of trust and we lived together Liv in for the pretty much the entire time we still have a place in TJ together yeah and that that that adds uh for us that adds glue to the relationship for other people they're so intolerable to live with that would have added it have been so hard it been so hard to live with it why do you think you know cuz people think you know you work together and live together by the

00:50:40 way the first six seven years I mean we were working almost 24 hours a day we would wake up drink coffee together uh get get to work come back home have dinner together always talking about work it's all we did seven days a week pretty much but like in the last in the entire time we might have had like two or three arguments ever like real arguments right uh why do we get a we have a lot of debate by the way but not arguments why do we get along so well what is that um you know one there was a lot of wine um

00:51:14 so that that helps lubricate helps a lot lubricate these conversations uh there there is there is individual respect that we all have that um doesn't at least for and my perspective I don't think any anything personal right I don't think it's a personal attack right right and I know that if if something didn't happen or something didn't go the way that we wanted it to that it wasn't because someone didn't give their best I right it it's not it isn't that there's is yeah do we want the best Al of course

00:51:52 we always do let's try to systemically solve that if we see someone over here that needs support let's let's try to do it we don't have arguments because we all understand the concept of Team yes right the team wins or loses that's it right it's it's not one individual person is winning or Los doesn't work that way like I cannot go out and be great in this Venture without Ed and Scott right it just does it will not work well say right and if if I if like let's say I win at something the team wins if you win the team wins we all

00:52:25 feel the losses too right so it's like you know we've all let's call it failed at certain things at different times but I don't think we've ever and I know we've never come down hard on one another no been like what did you it's like no you gave 110% sometimes things don't work out and um you know the other thing I think is interesting about our partnership is that if you know there's with with scottt and dedr if one of us has an idea and is more passionate about it but two of us disagree we go with the guy that's more

00:53:03 passionate about getting it done if you if you're willing to to push it Forward I'll push with you y exactly even if I'm not entirely sure I will push with you um because alignment is more important than agreement amen man we don't have to agree we have to be aligned that's right right we us rowing in the same direction at the same pace is much more important ultimately than having a precise map of exactly and that's again goes back to being open-minded on how things can be done right right being not you know combative about how

00:53:42 things are being done would be would assume that I know how to do them and there's very little that I know how to do the things I know how to do are very very few and specific so I I have to be open-minded right because we're always that's part of innovation you're always in ter where there is no clear map there is no clear way to go now if we want to stop innovating and we want to just build a perfect Mouse trop to catch the same Mouse right then yes we can critique how to do things in that way but in

00:54:11 Innovation territory it's foggy yeah absolutely it's very very foggy and we've always been innovating I mean there's never been a time we're like we're not going to do any more Innovation it's been all how do we do the best and figure out really how do we cure cancer that's like the question that we have we want to cure solid tumor cancer then it was you know how do we build the best lab in the world for cancer which I think we've done I have a strong argument for that that we've done that um and you know but getting there

00:54:45 is so hard man holy [ __ ] you know we just get in there and grind yes but when I look back even the last two years they all seem tough but like the two years what I remember the closest with this inovation and all the [ __ ] it's been hard as hell man it I mean how like you think is it just that most people aren't willing to go through that to get course what they want yeah yeah I I think that there is uh you know in our society we have individualized people so much that we've lost real contexts of

00:55:26 struggle and like everybody's such a person that any slight to their feelings or whatever you know that that kind of can be extrapolated to how they view the whole world right whereas if you have this mindset that you know I'm a person in the world and to achieve great things I must do hard things if if that is your mindset then you see hard things as an opportunity the the hardest thing is the way the thing that you don't want to do is the thing that you probably should be doing right right so uh and and it's

00:56:08 hard to awaken to that in theory right like I can say this and someone can hear it and they could perhaps even agree with it but until you go out and do hard things and experience the hardship and what's on the other side of the hard thing then it's really really difficult to take in because the pain of the hard thing on the front end is just like oh my I don't want to do this anymore this sucks and and we just as a society I mean people people are [ __ ] like they they that we raise kid everybody gets a

00:56:46 trophy everybody wins everybody nobody wants to take an L well nobody wants to do it nobody wants to take it no and it's you got to take some else to to win it's just that's right yeah you were uh you actually said this before I heard Dana say it but you're talking about there's never been a time where it's been easier to be successful oh my God yeah why is that we were just talking about so the the I think the time and season that we are in now that intentionally or perhaps even unintentionally there is

00:57:18 messaging that is almost almost seducing people out of strength right it can it can seem that certain individualistic ideas and ideals um about how we should approach life and and take chances and and be present it can that it can seem as if those are somehow negative traits or toxic right and what's happening is is people especially younger people who maybe don't have as much experience in life would would take at face value some slide or some video telling them that a set of behaviors is bad without

00:58:12 experiencing them for themselves right this isn't your parents telling you this isn't somebody that you respect this is your phone telling you that certain behaviors are bad or toxic when those have made people great for centuries these same traits these same attributes have been working for centuries yes in this Society but now all of a sudden they're toxic they're bad okay and you accept that without any real critical thought right right so I think a part of the problem isn't just this one example

00:58:47 and this is an example right of like this messaging that people are buying into it kind of gets them to be weak about certain [ __ ] it's really an overall lack of critical thinking yes and an acceptance of images and sounds that you're not questioning where this came from or why are you trying to teach me this or why would that be toxic what would be the exact opposite of this scenario it people aren't really thinking about images they're taking stuff and running with it right and they're building a life that allows

00:59:21 people who are critical thinkers to run right past them right and and and very Resolute people people who can be very singular focused regardless of what you think about them what you think about their positions how much you like them are going right now have a clear path to success because so many people are they fallen in the victimhood they're they're confused about whether or not being assertive or being strong is a good thing or a bad thing well if you're confused I'm not I'm I'm going to the

00:59:55 right yeah like that those type of things are subtle but you Cascade that out across millions of people yes and it just becomes so much easier to be successful if you don't feed into that [ __ ] yeah abolutely if you're not if you're not if you already have it made up in your mind hey I'm gonna be successful I hear this I wouldn't even mind thinking about it or maybe thinking about how I maybe I could change things or be a better person cool but ultimately I'm not with this weak [ __ ] I know I have to be strong to get through

01:00:23 the hard things exactly man being weaker or would I perceive to be weaker isn't going to help me right that's what it is it's like you know for whatever reason it's got like you see the victim mentality I always say it's like the victim Olympics like who's the bigger victim like I'm the Champion victim over here the the biggest victim who the B who's the biggest victim and you know they get you know certain praise out of it and they get an excuse to why they aren't successful and the problem though

01:00:57 is when people actually believe that you get this group think of victimhood yep uh that it's I mean it's not okay to be stuck in the circumstance that might have caused a bad situation at the time for the for your whole life you have to let that go you have to take responsibility for that specific situation to the point that you're not going to let it control right your entire life now the victim would say but this happened to me and you're not being sensitive like you can make I can make a victim argument to

01:01:34 almost everything man and I look at you know it's it's not it's like low energy too it's not hard to be a victim to everything I mean you think about all the things that we've been through dri yep imagine if we made up these stories these victimhood stories about all the bad crap and we've had so much stuff happen to us Meo people we would be the we would be the Olympic gold medal victim Champion right if we wanted to be right but we choose not to be and it's caused us to be successful but it is

01:02:10 it's a it's like a virus of people's minds and uh I've looked at it from like a country like imagine drick imagine if we get involved in politics one day okay and we can actually teach Society this not coming from a democrat or republican or whatever but that the mindset that they are being taught right actually hurts them more than helps them right it actually disempowers them instead of empowers him uh we haven't had a politician that's done that yeah well I mean I think I think politics in many

01:02:48 ways capitalizes on victimhood yes and the a better way if I were to be the type of person to to capitalize off victimhood would be to create systems of victim validation how can I reward because humans respond to rewards how can I reward you systemically for being a victim or for displaying victim characteristics and that allows people to stay in very clearly defined boxes right CU if we think about a lot of the boxes that are designed politically they're designed around like kind of victim lines like you know how have you

01:03:24 been victimized all right we need you to stay over here right so we can count on you when we need you and but we're not really going to help you get out of this victim scenario but we just need you to stay right here that that that mindset of victim validation is a trap right and it seems it seems good and I think people have the right intention yes I I agree with that well I think that the intention is good but we've gotten very far down the road especially with young men allowing them to when life gets

01:03:57 challenging that they can become victims and achieve the same things that those of us who are not victims and it just does not work that way that's why I said it's easier because I see that so many people are being baited into these victim validation circles and it's just okay cool that's what you want to do don't think that you're going to achieve the same things that I will right that and and don't think that you deserve them right cuz you don't and I'm here to remind you that you don't right and that

01:04:28 part comes off as that's probably what Dana was getting that's you know it comes off but it is what it is like you really think that you are going to be a victim and attempt the things that Dana White is doing and be Su Absol I bet he's got some stories to tell you know exactly so you got to roll with it you got to be able to get through the difficult parts and if if you don't feel like you have the tools seek out people who do align yourself with strong people who have those characteristics yeah you

01:04:56 know I just like the the victim validation is is a trap the thing that's going to set you free is being surrounded by people who are not victims who could remind you of what it's like to go through and overcome and be strong if if young people especially young adults are not choosing those relationships right you know we're going to get we're we we're going to get a a a separation in society right right there is and it's happening yeah you know we can arue has been happening but I think it's easier

01:05:28 to create these little victim validation circles now with the internet and groups and it's targeting I mean you know one person has one bad experience you can like boom put a tag on them and just run ads at them to make more victim purchases right there's a whole Marketplace to you know buy things that perpetuate your victim Hood absolutely you know it's a Marketplace yes and somebody's got disrupted yeah right's got disrupted yeah I mean it's it's it's it's while to think about that uh it's actually a debate that being a victim is

01:06:03 better than being personally responsible yeah you know people get personal responsibility confused too because that doesn't mean if someone was let's say sexually assaulted when they were a kid right they're not responsible for that what happened no but if they stay in that victim story forever they're never going to be able to get through life and so unless they take responsibility for how they react moving forward they're not going to get through that and that's that's the extreme yeah of course and of course people are damaged

01:06:32 and those Ty they're not saying that there's a difference between between those but I think it's important because you know right now we are in trouble in society it has never been easier for us to be successful because there's so many weak men out there straight up right and you know people believe you were talking about you don't believe you know when it's [ __ ] I'll give you an example some [ __ ] um they're talking about the the uh women's pay Gap okay so I started doing a bunch of research reading all

01:07:02 these you know uh papers and um kind of digging in and it says oh well you know one of the talking points is women make uh 76% of what men make and imagine this dedric with our $2 million payroll right we would save if we just hired if that were the case I would just hire women and save 24% of on everything because we believe women are equal to men and if I could get a woman for yeah 75% give me a break it was like it's [ __ ] but when I started digging in here's what they don't tell you they weren't talking

01:07:39 hourly pay most of these studies are not taking into consideration hourly men are working on average let's say 42 hours a week women 37 and that's where they show the pay Gap or women are working part time it's like not right uh what what people think of when I first hear those headlines I'm like well that's not fair a woman shouldn't make less of course than a man I believe that I don't think they should make less than a man but when you dig into it that whole story and narrative is [ __ ] that put women

01:08:14 right in this victim mentality of oh I need women's empowerment I'm just I can't do it because men are horrible so they put the blame that's a victim they put the blame on somebody else men or the patriarchy or all this quite frankly [ __ ] that people believe right well see the order of thinking that you just displayed of okay I'm I'm I receive a sensational headline okay my initial response is I kind of align with that I don't think women should do but let me look into the methodology that produced this headline

01:08:49 yes oh the headline is a little bit misleading or a lot bit misleading because it doesn't take these things into consideration now that data was not hidden their methodology of how they arrived at this data is not hidden right you just have to read yes right and you just you just have to think and read and and process information and say oh what they're getting at is that if this were a true Apples to Apples if it were hourly pay without the consideration of maternity leave or you know taking off

01:09:20 work early to spend more time with children because women have more I've seen some of this data too and I just looked at methodology like okay well that makes sense why men make more and there are certain occupations where men are paid more and it's just disproportionately male and there aren't very many disproportionately female positions that pay as much that might be a separate conversation that's not what's being said though right right so but that you gota you got to read right you got you actually have to think

01:09:46 about stuff and they and say okay that this is interesting our our first response is is going to be F because we're M but our immediate response should be think and question M right because our initial response is probably not accurate right and I want to know what is accurate what what is Right based on what this person and the data that they're presenting so you know you got people who build whole movements off of headlines without reading any of the data right and and that is not just intellectually lazy that's

01:10:23 dangerous right because because you you can take to the streets in protest without accurate data and lose your life protesting is very dangerous the protest is one hit away from being a riot right every protest is I don't care how peaceful your origin your Origins are or which intentions are the moment that there are people with visors Shields and bulletproof vest is dangerous yes absolutely if their presence is there and it will be there it just got dangerous absolutely and if you are risking your life on a

01:10:56 movement and individually you don't have a firm sense of the numbers now you could have read that and you could have read that data and been like okay I understand why there's a disparity and I still think it's wrong MH okay yes all right fine but to not have done that and then to be surprised when someone brings this up right that lets me know okay you didn't take the time to really you know develop this opinion you just let the the opinion develop you right and again that's a that's that's dangerous you

01:11:34 know as as an individual as a society that is so easy to get people so worked up yes with less than a certain number of characters that that is that sets us up to be victims of Terror Sops right because other countries are looking at this and they'll be like Americans are getting so right right they get worked up over these headlines and images and those don't require us to have a large me uh military they don't require you know this complex network of spies and insurgent and people under theground no

01:12:10 we can have like two or three guys sitting in a room just cranking out videos and fake headlines all day or or we could just program our AI to just make certain themes and Cascade them out throughout our different channels so that people can see them and start feeling crazy and since we know they're not going to read we know that they're not going to do any real critical thought right it's just stirring up this emotional frenzy yep right and that's a type of warfare tactic now oh is 100% obvious right there if I were

01:12:44 like let's say the United States were my enemy you know I could so manipulate the people you know just think about like think about and this isn't talking bad about people but people are so gullible you know they don't read um there's you know a couple sides right now Republican Democrat you either believe in this or you believe in that and the critical thinking on both sides it's so bad it's hard for me to have a conversation right now um with really anyone when it come that that that that says I'm a Republican or

01:13:25 Democrat and like puts the flag deep because they're not open to you know having different views I mean people look at like I support Trump now right um I didn't support Trump years ago right a lot of critical thinking has gone into why I support him now right but I see why someone would support Cala Harris I can see why um and you know they they say well I just don't like you know I hate Trump so bad now uh people put you in boxes though and if I were a foreign adversary I mean you could just drive

01:14:05 that wedge uh prey on people's gullibility ignorance weakness put Society into a victim bucket can you imagine like your your job is to attack Americans you would make them all weak you would make the men weak you would make the women uh hate the men you would make the men and women not know if they're men and women and question the definition I mean you would mix things up a lot and confuse it up as much as possible and make the San people feel completely crazy right and that's exactly what's being done now I don't

01:14:46 know if it's a foreign adversary I don't know who's doing it but it is clear man if you think critically and you take a critical thinking view into everything you do right now it's all [ __ ] up and smart people are not thinking right now yeah there's there's appears to be an intelligent and intentional attempt to destabilize a a certain vein of American thinking especially as it pertains to government um trust in the media and information um leadership regardless of on kind of like natural or default political ideals you

01:15:30 know there's there's this destabilization that creates these Echo Chambers where you where one wouldn't listen to in opinion or perspective that does not specifically align with what they're being fed and that is dangerous that creates a clear separation and the the the clear of that separation is the easier it will be to be exploited whether that be domestically internationally because who's who right is the big thing that we want to figure out because you know it might be more advantageous to take advantage of these

01:16:07 people now and then those people later but we need to be able to identify them well if we just start these Echo Chambers and and everybody is aligned by Echo chamber and I can identify you based on where you're getting your Echo chamber information from geographically who does doesn't have their location turned on I know exactly where you are I can read your mind because the thoughts that you're typing in the chat GPT and Google those are your thoughts the questions you're asking are your thoughts so we can read those there's no

01:16:38 privacy on the internet we we can read those thoughts we can read that or some party could have access to that that they have your location so you mean to tell me that we systemically aren't critically thinking we have divulged our location we have divulged our alliances through a number of clicks and and questions that we ask on our phones I mean why send an army over right exactly would be your objective at this point like you already got you know you kind of got everybody by the balls like you already know where everybody's

01:17:17 at like why why even why even muster a why even rais the money to send the Army over when your objective may have been to just push product or profit off of American society more destroy it from within right destroy it from within and still profit from it because I think that there's a there's a there's a huge commercial interest and opportunity from subdividing America Society this way yeah and it's easier to Market to people when they self- select into certain groups right once they opt in and say oh I'm this person I like to

01:17:49 think this way oh great I got a product for you here's your confirmation bi us here you go the the the more that we do that and the more that people keep doubling down into extreme ideas right cuz that's what's happening it's one thing to be one side or the other it's another thing when you're doubling down and your double down becomes more extreme than the time before because now you're you're pulling further and further away right from being able to even relate to someone who doesn't have the same opinion that the

01:18:18 internet makes that doubling down scenario that rapid almost instant right and you know before the internet you would have had to read book and and maybe go to a rally or or develop an opinion that was really really really really really strong and and informed to be a very very very extreme political person that those people were almost seen as like like weirdos and mad men that had these very extreme political ideas now almost everybody has them right yeah you know almost everybody is a is is a you know with the Villager

01:18:49 with the Pitchfork on some idea that they really have just been fed and probably haven't dug too deep into right which is which is wild they haven't read past the headline and whatever the article said right it's right right right right right right right you know you think about during Co um I mean you were there with me the whole time and I was one of the first like talking [ __ ] like I'm reading these papers yes what they're saying on TV is not what the papers say they're not asking the questions in these papers by the way

01:19:19 that they should be asking and there's a whole group of great scientists over here that are saying something completely different and they're being shut out why is that and you know you saw it throughout man and this is where the I think critical thinking took a big turn I'll give you one example uh well the first example um the question that I asked as it was happening and and you know I did not support Trump I thought if you remember all through Trump's presidency I said there's no way they're

01:19:51 going to let this guy stay president something's going to happen they're going to the last year something's going to blow everything up it's like there's no way he's causing too much divide and so in January of 2020 um I was like oh I guess I was wrong looks like he's you know they're not going to crash this economy or whatever right yeah March covid comes out and I asked the question what are the odds that the most divisive president in our uh lifetime mhm um who is going after the powers that be I mean whether

01:20:30 you agree with them or not the people that he's against are the people that I'm against that's what I'm saying I don't agree exactly how he does things but I'm like okay you know those that are pulling the stream those that uh were upset when Edward Snowden uh released the NSA documents those that uh you know wanted to put him in jail those that were uh going after Julian Assange those are the enemy to me right you know the big Pharma truly that's the enemy to me and so he is going after them and he caused zero

01:21:04 Wars I was an anti-war activist back in the day you know no Wars dude right and so when you look at that who is the last person to cause that much problem his his talk aside JFK right and he was assassinated and so the idea that we get a virus out of the blue that at first they said came from bats mhm and if you were to say that it came from a lab in China you were racist y they so they first use that Y and then the virus comes out turns out to be coming from a lab in China which they will they still won't

01:21:43 fully admit even though they they pretty much admit it right and the country gets locked down with something that in April of 20 20 I predict the 0.023 overall death rate for covid okay it's about that how did I know that in 2020 I did the [ __ ] math man right right right right I divided the People by weight by age and came up with an assumption yeah yeah but it was con so close but much closer than everybody else's that was public why is that critical thinking like let let's dig into the numbers what does this say

01:22:26 what do these other scientists over here say how deadly is this really what age groups is it killing what are the side uh what are the pre-existing conditions that um make someone more susceptible to a severe reaction and just by asking those questions I was sent messages you people just you just want people to die you don't I'm like actually the opposite right I want people to live right what are the unintended consequences that are going to happen from shutting everything down you know you see the all cause

01:22:55 mortality going up and up and up why is that addictions going through the roof why is that child abuse suicide we all knew this was going to happen as soon as I well we did Society listen we we knew this was going to happen the average person when I brought it up like attacked me yep I remember that so what like where is the critical thinking so I say all that D because I believe if we can get people to actually think again you know make thinking a thing again make thinking great again yeah make

01:23:33 thinking great again I think we can go a long way but people are so programmed really really smart people are so programmed to think they you know in their way right you know if you were to say during Co you're doing your own research that that was always praised in the past right but they're like don't do your own research search so yeah I guess that was a long little uh talk from me what are your thoughts on you know those those ideas and what we saw so so you know the the big thing that I saw with Co um

01:24:10 was how fear if introduced to the masses so we are we we just had this whole talk about how you know critical thinking but there's like an accelerant to a lack of critical thinking and it's fear okay fear makes people even less likely because there's an urgency to the situation it's a pandemic there's there's lockdowns there's Mass there show me your papers there's all of this stuff is going on people now have another excuse to not read they have another excuse to not think and I don't think it's entirely all just oh I'm not

01:24:52 going to you know I'm not a critical thinker because I'm anti- critical thinking some people don't have the tools they're not being encouraged to be critical thinkers yeah it it's not it's not it's not already before covid it already wasn't trending in the right direction right I was not very optimistic that if the government released anything about covid that was not or that could be considered debatable I was not optimistic on how that would be received by the public because of the erosion of critical

01:25:27 thinking and the fear you throw you compound fear then you start threatening people's wages and Lifestyles you know there's a there's a coercive effect to how certain messages can be put out there right when I am being told that I must behave this way or I'm going to lose my job my source of income and the cascading effect of losing my house and probably my family now I'm not going critically think about this [ __ ] I was just told I'm going to lose everything if I do right right so has someone or

01:26:00 something that has that much power and control over you is is is really really challenging because we can sit here and we are fortunate enough to not be in that situation you know where okay I can just not agree with this [ __ ] like I don't nobody gonna take my other job right nobody gonna take that away from me but so many people allow themselves to be in that situation and what I've seen since Co is for those people who yeah they they may have walked back certain claims the government may have walked back

01:26:38 certain claims that they purported to be true in that at that time in that moment you know I don't see that there really being a lot of growth in preparation for if something like that were to happen again sure so that you wouldn't be such at the whim or the the mercy of those people who are making those edicts I want people to be free to make decisions not completely uncovered by their financial circumstance to to think about it without having their livelihoods question if that's with within reason um and I just I just saw

01:27:16 over Co like I had to learn how to respect other people's right to be a afraid even if I believe their fear is complete [ __ ] I had to just respect that you are afraid and be a friend and and and and a a a a confidant a brother to people who are afraid of something that maybe they shouldn't be as afraid of right and I I need to be supportive of them even though I know that this is [ __ ] yeah and and in the moment that's what they need right right they don't need me telling them why this isn't you know what I'm saying that's

01:28:01 absolutely and that that took a lot for me to to be present there for people like okay you're scared of this you probably shouldn't be you're young you're healthy you don't go anywhere anyway so it doesn't really matter but I okay I got I just got to be there for you so it it helped me in that regard like empathize with ir irrationality yeah yes like you are completely thinking about this in a way that maybe doesn't make the most sense you're trusting people who may not have your best interest in mind and even if

01:28:36 they do they perhaps are aligned with people who are profiting from this whole situation which calls us something into question but okay we are here yeah all right uh how do we get back on track right you know what I'm saying like I I can't let you be a victim right and just be a victim to co because what's that going to do right um but I have to at least be sensitive to like you are afraid you're legitimately afraid of this yes you know what I'm saying and I'm not right and like how do I how how are we

01:29:06 going to do this when Society is telling you to look at someone like me as your enemy yes it's a great someone who doesn't have a vaccine you know your Society is telling me you've known me your whole life yeah you know what I'm saying to that I'm the enemy now okay you know how do I deal with those think about that Society is telling you that I'm the enemy now because I didn't get a vaccine and we're generally healthy people yeah um we're definitely doing the research yeah uh and when you say [ __ ] this is this this is

01:29:41 interesting because some people will hear [ __ ] and think that you didn't think covid was serious right no and it's not bad no not at all it's you you said afterwards someone young healthy yeah they gener don't have much to about does that mean that some people aren going to get bad out of but it's um you know and that's where the critical thinking goes in too uh it seems to be lost on society and Co just accelerated because of the fear you know with the fear can you imagine you know people saying you know you didn't get the

01:30:19 vaccine you're evil stay away you know it it reminds me same with Trump right now if you support Trump people like how dare you I'm not talking to you what is wrong with you I mean if they were you if if people that say that were to sit down and talk to us I could like explain everything very well to them why right I have a problem personally that Cala didn't get democratically elected in her primary it was [ __ ] right she we said we were talking on the uh podcast for a long time Biden's mental

01:30:54 acuity is not there right so he he's clearly off and then the mainstream media the same mainstream media that were pushing the vaccines that were pushing uh that pushing the Wars all over the world the same M mainstream media was saying oh no he's fine he's sharper than ever come on now and you know people just bought it and then when the debate happened which by the way I didn't think Biden looked that bad in the debate compared to a lot of his other yeah but then they that's when they decided to manipulate the public kick

01:31:30 them out and install I thought it was going to be Gavin Nome or or uh kamla and sure enough that's it look look at where we're at this this is a pattern of we're going to Gaslight you and then and then come out with the truth later yes right like that that this has been the c a pattern I've seen since Co yeah like we're g we're g to say like you go back to the whole bad thing like you can't you can't say that it's bad so you can't say it's from a lab in China but then we're going to like quietly say you know it was from

01:32:05 Aline of China but think of all the damage and the collateral damage and the relationship damage that was done between the the thinkers or just people who are in in opposition for whatever reason it might even been critically thinking they just happen to be in opposition of this think of all the relationship damage across families friend groups coworker groups and then everybody was expected to go back to work yeah and be fine and be fine the other one masks yeah they get it was proven with unequivocally that cloth

01:32:37 masks don't work at all and they probably cause more harm right and then the Cochran report which is the largest uh metaanalysis or the the top metaanalysis uh peview uh said that mass don't work at all in in public and you know the fact that you think about all the divide that masks cost these stupid cloth masks you know how hard it was for me to put on a [ __ ] cloth mask rough man like really and I got to deal with dumb people coming at me saying put your mask on yeah put your mask oh man I mean

01:33:12 yeah damage right damage we had to deal with a bunch of idiots for you know years with this and it was more in our face because we were the counterculture yeah yeah know we were standing up against this [ __ ] we're raw dog in the air walking the street right right right right right right right right it it the the whole Mass thing to me was wild because I would have thought that without doing any research you know that the the the the the intuitive gut instinct of anyone that had been in an airport or on an

01:33:46 airplane like hey let's let's try to get down to some some meat and potatoes thinking you want me to stand 6 feet away from someone in the terminal and then basically sit on their lap in an airplane yes as if any protective measures that we did in a terminal right mattered clearly but you're don't think about that D don't think about that yeah I'm going to wear a condom until the very end when it's really important right and expect to get the same outcome that's that's that's crazy yeah I'm gonna walk

01:34:28 I'm GNA walk to a restaurant table with my mask on and then take it off at the table like because it can only transmit when we not it it it you know I I'm kind of a little disappointed in like the the comedy community for not making more light of some of these policies yeah because I would have expected this stuff to been clowned into you know high heaven but it didn't you know some did but I'm like nobody sees this a little bit silly like I mean take take all the science take everything off the table of

01:35:02 like this doesn't seem strange to you that we're doing this yeah and and like like people are being very very serious about it like that doesn't like I was never really mad at any of this stuff like when I would encounter people who had a strong position I would almost think it was funny cuz I would think that they were playing with me like are you serious with that are you pulling my leg right now right you really like I had I was in the airport man and you know how they they did this thing where they had the feet like six

01:35:28 feet apart and you were supposed to stand on some feet so I was like standing like a little bit in front of a pair of feet and like this guy comes and like you know kind of like backs me up on like what I laughed at him and he's like hey this isn't funny man this is serious I'm like let's I'm not even going to explain it to you right getting out a plane right what are you talking about yeah we're standing in line to go sit on a plane yeah what are you but the plane has such good circulation it's like you're sitting

01:35:56 right next to somebody what and you know it's that's the lack of critical thinking that that we saw I remember the first time I flew from Nashville to San Diego during Co it was April so this is fresh yeah and I bought a first class ticket thinking you know well that's how what I normally buy and the only people traveling were in first class and the whole back of the plane was empty which is kind of funny right we're full In First Class mhm nobody else is flying on the plane and I'm sitting uh on the

01:36:30 plane next to somebody and like this is stupid you know like we're six feet apart generally but now we're like right next to each other and I get off the plane and go to get my bag and the guy next to me cuz there's people in the line in the row he's like well so much for social distancing what and I pulled down my mask and I said [ __ ] off I was so mad I let it out but what are you talking about dudee you're saying I'm crazy maybe I am crazy but this [ __ ] seems crazy to me we're supposed to believe

01:37:02 this and there's so many people that just ate it up and they got judgy and you're bad because of not getting the vaccine and you remember when they were pushing the uh this is a pandemic of the unvaccinated and they said if you got the vaccine you couldn't spread Co oh yeah that was you know and oh and then I had two friends who I I love that made posts on Facebook about how they sat next to an unvaccinated person and the unvaccinated person gave them covid and I'm like you're vaccinated and you got

01:37:43 Co what the [ __ ] are you talking about right read this back as slowly as you need to until it makes sense because they were told that if they got the vaccine they couldn't Co and that's where the damage as you were saying more damage that came in by their lives people actually thought well if I get the vaccine I can't spread Coen we found out that was complete [ __ ] and so you know lack of critical thinking after covid has made it a lot easier for guys like us dedri to be successful yeah if I if I I didn't

01:38:19 you know if I ever needed validation on you know the trajectory of my life because things don't really happen in a vacuum right we're always in this Dynamic Universe of people and all these nebulous factors Co was it like I like okay people just are not going to use their thinking in that way and that's okay yeah um you know I'm not here to judge them or judge that but you know whereas I would have possibly approached and gave the benefit of the doubt that people think critically uh I do not do

01:38:51 that anymore yeah right you just can't you do this is better than almost anybody I know you actually block out yeah oh yeah uh a lot of different media like during CO as you were just saying you uh stopped getting the those in your new those things in your news feed um why do you do that uh Focus um you know our conscious Minds have bandwidth right and we're we're being bombarded with stimuli at all times and you know our our phones and and mobile devices uh make it easier than than ever for unsolicited images and thoughts and

01:39:32 ideas to come across our scope to to be received and you know I believe that in in situations where I need to lead where I need to focus that that is dangerous um you know the counterargument to that would be well you're cutting yourself off from information but I'm like is this really information right uh I'll take the risk that this might be [ __ ] or or or heavily Laden with [ __ ] and not engage it at all and be focused on what I can see what I can validate what I can rely on or at least with a reasonable

01:40:10 probability of Truth and Trust I I'll take that over being fed polarizing headlines right and it's it's just I couldn't I didn't want to risk you know our business my family or anything by consuming this information yeah because I already saw what what this was this is this is an attempt to destabilize and there's a real disease out here but how we are acting does not seem to be in line with the real threat yeah and if the media is going to push narratives one way or the other I don't need to be

01:40:47 a part of that right I I have very important things to focus on right now yeah a company not going bankrupt right very important things to to focus on and and this is not going to be one of them yeah uh you know I'm I'm open to any significant changes to help change my thinking but I already know where to go to get that information right especially as it pertaining to com I already know and have trusted reliable sources people I can pick up the phone and call now of course I'm in a different situation in space but I I was

01:41:19 aware enough that there was there was other opinions or ideas and people that I could vet things that maybe were concerning and get a different perspective or or understand what they were thinking with this test or the study that I didn't really feel the need for news media yeah I didn't think it would help me yeah at all and um you know I don't watch television uh so I'm already not like heavily invested in receiving messages this way MH um so it wasn't that big of a personal lift for me to make the change but it but it did

01:41:54 I think give me a lot of mental Clarity over that time that I think a lot of people got like intellectually fatigued because it's like the you know that there's so many new messages there's there's this ticker that's flowing on your your screen or on your phone about all of these new cases yeah and it's just like driving people nuts and I'm like I don't want to be one of those people I I'm not immune to Sops like I don't have a force field why would just say no it's my strategy for the drug of media just

01:42:25 don't even engage it yeah uh or limit my engagement to just the just the Bare Essentials until we get Beyond this whatever whatever that looks like yeah Jim Brewer I think that's his name Jim Brewer has a clip he's like trust the science trust the science like a like a parrot you know right right right wear a mask over and over and over again hysterical and you that's what it it reminded me of I noticed in March of 2020 when they were just shutting everything down I was I watched the news like four days in a row I was in

01:42:59 Nashville and I was having these weird nightmares man I could imagine I'm like what is going on I mean it was like the world could be ending right and uh you know that does play a big role uh and we have to be super careful we still had you know a couple hundred employees to take care of we had a hospital to run uh we had to um comfort our patients because people were more concerned with covid than they were metastatic cancer which was wild we saw a lot of people die y from their cancer because they were so afraid of

01:43:38 covid yeah yeah yeah one of the most heartbreaking Parts about the whole cor experience was those patients and I mean this happened immediately those patients who got fired by their oncologist and their pcps and were not allowed to come in and receive treatment because they have cancer and you know what are they to do right like what what do you you just tell some stage for a cancer patient you can't get treatment right because you're immuno compromised yeah because I have cancer right like we have the

01:44:11 known big deal here and that was that was that was very very difficult for me to process that scenario as not a oneoff but a systemic response to patients that were in very delicate situations that really relied on their local healthare yeah to not have that the same type of access to you know different spaces uh because of their disease right right well that's why these spaces exist exactly so uh you know that that was that was that was challenging for me because you know as someone who provides

01:44:50 Healthcare and and curates a space for people to come in and receive healing to take that away and because of something like Co right uh it seemed it seems somewhat immoral or against my VI I don't believe that that maybe was the intent right but that's that was probably how I would have received it if I would have been the patient or if it would have been my parent or my loved one I'm like what do you mean we can't come to our doctor we can't come you know so that was that was Co was eye opening on a lot of fronts

01:45:25 for me because these situations which can be talked about on television by you know a political figure or media figure have real consequences to real Everyday People yeah and you know these people don't have a strong opinion about politics or they want to live they don't care if if masks work they wearing them right they just want to get the treatment they live need so that they can live their lives and there there was a lot of isolation there there was a lot of suffering unfortunately because of

01:45:56 decisions that were made and you know we can't go backwards um but I hope that we have learned from that yeah um you know I I'm not entirely optimistic about individuals but I think as a system hopefully we've learned that we cannot forsake certain individuals to rush to this scenario especially with so little real information about it m uh and so many people who we have a plan for them right have a treatment plan for them and it might be working right now it's not working because they can't come so that

01:46:36 was that was terrible part of it was terrible I mean I guess was there any time over the last nine and a half years where you thought that we were not going to make it no no no uh you know the the only way to not make it in something like this is is to quit is to just give up MH right and you know the the the business model itself we produce a quantity that the demand is so high that the fundamental economics of the business are secure forever right you know clear and transparent communication you know individualized

01:47:18 treatment and and wanted to be treated like a human being and not a number I could go on and on but we could stop right there just being able to provide that secures the marketplace right the marketplace of people who want that or want that for their families is is enormous right so there's no real shortage of opportunity M uh the challenges of delivering that with all of these other competing variables and market for I mean that becomes complex but at no point did I ever think that there wasn't hope or or that we couldn't

01:47:54 get through we can't be in a business that supplies hope and provides hope and then have none ourselves right we have got to at at at our core have hope that okay things are challenging right now things are very difficult right now things aren't looking good right now we've been down this road before but we've been down this road before right we we will get over this this two Shall Pass let's keep moving forward let's let's just keep focus on forward right because there's a really good chance we're

01:48:27 overreacting really good one like like really good chance we're overreacting and even if we're not overreacting we probably still have the tools to get through to get through it so if we keep that in mind um then the no scenario in my opinion that we've encountered over the last nine years has been bigger than that very simple reasoning yeah you know this two shall pass and even if it do will probably still be all right um if you have that mindset uh you always have hope right like it's very easy for me to

01:49:00 be hopeful and focus because this two shell pass and even if it doesn't uh we probably still be okay right so yeah I mean for me there were so many times that I could point to before covid that were really tough that most people would think it's over there's no way to get through it m but I never once thought that we were going to fail right like never um during Co I had I had some questions uh in early 2021 yeah um but I still I mean we still didn't quit obviously right but it was like oh it's so painful cuz I was

01:49:42 dealing with East iy here too uh all the crazy Brides that right I gave everybody the refund that that we uh that we had but they were still mad that they didn't get their wedding date so crazy Brides plus Hospital in Mexico people don't realize too you know when you own a hospital and you're giving healthc care you still have to have buyin from all of your team and they were dealing with the right the trauma of right covid right right and so it was like you know we sat him down said look I understand everybody here

01:50:16 has might have a different view right you know we you know have everybody wear their masks and do you know it's a hospital we we you know do Co testing but if you don't want to be here uh got to go like we we can't do this yeah and um you know thankfully we have incredible staff yes they were a little afraid at first understandable but we had to put some critical thinking there as well like they were the the logic was off on some of this stuff too just like wow but um overall they did a great job oh yeah and they

01:50:55 came through uh as a team and we all came through really yeah every yeah you know I think that our organization is much stronger now after everything we went through with Co the employees got to learn they could trust us to not just lay them off Y and send them high and dry just yeah yeah there there there was I think internally um especially for those teammates that have been with us you know since the beginning or the earlier years when we we bought the hospital um you know going through the co experience

01:51:28 with us not not as if we hadn't had our own roller coaster um but Co allowed them to see that you know we were probably as as owners more selfless than selfish in this situation y um because the easier thing to do would have been to be selfish mhm the right thing to do was the hard thing that we ran towards Y and there was a lot of pain mhm as it was painful uh and and almost every physically painful emotionally financially painful it was spiritually pain it was painful and that was 100% the right way to handle it y

01:52:13 we're better for it we've got a Better Business for it and that's an example of you got to run to the hard thing yeah we were presented with two ways to do this Y and we did the hard way cuz we believ that that was the right thing to do yeah and as painful as it was and it was truly painful it was yeah absolutely and we are better for it absolutely and I can only speculate what our lives would be like if we had not done the hard thing yep absolutely I don't know that we would be better for it right now

01:52:45 I don't believe that we would we wouldn't be bad we're still good people but I don't know if we had said you know what let's just wash our hands with this whole thing and this is too stressful like let's just get out of the HS I don't believe there's no CPI there's no stem cell none of all that none of that stuff happens right uh you know all the people that are being impacted now the new vision of Tam none of that stuff happens uh the team that we have now that get a chance to experience this environment and translation none of that

01:53:12 happens none of the people that are going to be impacted none of that none of it happens we had what's interesting I think it was a $4.9 million offer on the table could have walked away right kind of walked away right there and um we said no you know it really wasn't you know we none of us wanted to give it up no not right then and we knew that the vision was bigger than any of that that that was the easy way out especially during Co stressful times great talked about several million more dollars in my

01:53:44 pocket at that moment that short-term thinking it would have been great yeah but in the big picture that compared to the impact that that that we can create and I mean what we're doing now is you know much much bigger um at what point did you know the stem cells was going to be uh very successful for our business okay so you know pretty early on um you know I had been tracking um you know when we first got into the stem cell thing I tried to educate myself and I used uh Dr Neil Neil Ren as my reference point you know

01:54:22 he was like the most respected guy that was out there and you know my thinking is okay we got we we want some sort of Benchmark of the Innovation and if we can't produce and get results like Dr Neil Reen would do or could do in his operation then maybe stem cells isn't the right business for us to be in or the right Institute for our hospital and we began to see anecdotally with um those initial patients was you know pretty rapid response mhm um you know I've never had a doubt or question our ability to Source patience or or do that

01:55:04 part of the business that's that I you know that actually is not something I take for granted but it is something that if I were to take any part of the business for granted it would be that yeah so uh that it was the delivery of making sure that we can sustainably produce the sales the the moment that I I saw that we could consistently produce a certain number of celles and when we I remember when we first did that differentiation test I remember when we first started getting you know when when a lot of the the kind

01:55:38 of like nuts and bolts of the cell production came into place I knew we had something because those initial patients did well right right and and these are people these are like friends and family these are people I know so it's like okay I know you're not just bullshitting with me because we're friends is like if this really wasn't working say something now well and and that's you know that's what we did so the first year M uh that we did stem cells it was all friends and alls and family and we did it at pretty

01:56:04 much cost and said let's work out the Kinks let's figure out what systems we do how long the treatment is uh all the other treatments we're going to do with it and um that and and guys if if the service isn't up to the level that we want everybody in the public we w we won't do it yeah it's like let's yeah let's uh let's try this sucker out and we did yeah and it worked really well it worked and and it is working and it's still working and I think it serves as like a platform for future Innovation um

01:56:36 you I think the approach that we take or or took at that time um you know kind of proof of concept this very small cohort group very safe protocol very limited you know allowed us to observe the effectiveness or perhaps lack thereof of the sales and when we saw across you know different indications different people you know you know fairly standardized response with with with tissue regeneration and you know reduced pain and inflammation I knew we had something you know the next step is can we consistently

01:57:13 produce the cells to deliver this treatment over and over and over again because it's not like you just go to the store go to pharmacy bu them right they have to be grown they have to be cultivated and there that is done under very very rigorous and strict uh environment that also has to be supported through a whole supply chain so my my doubts about the or or any concerns I had about the effectiveness of of stem cells were dissipated pretty much immediately um my ability or our ability to get patients I knew was there uh the

01:57:50 the question mark for me was you know yeah this is going to work are we going to be able to even have enough sales right over the Long Haul to get it to people there's a huge market for this everybody wants it I mean this is before Joe Rogan this is before any of this stuff I knew that this business would be really successful because there's so many people in back pain and hip pain and I already knew that there's a huge market for it can we keep making the sales out of very high quality and and

01:58:18 and do it in the best inclass way period right and and that's what we've done we've actually developed the system to develop the sales yeah that go into the treatment along with all the other therapies that we're doing with patients so uh yeah five a little over five billion cells a week yeah that we're making now and with our new lab uh escalate that Dr to 30 yep yeah um so it's it's been it's been kind of a rocket ship you know especially the last two years uh August 2022 is when it really took off um what

01:58:59 have you seen uh that has surprised you since we started uh CPI um so so since we've started CPI the the thing that has surprised me um is is not so I did I didn't know how prevalent things like degenerative disc I mean I know they exist right but we we've been so focused on cancer you don't really think about you kind of think in that lane a lot and it was a different type of disease or indication to kind of educate myself about and what what was surprising about it was how prevalent certain low hanging fruit

01:59:36 perhaps for stem cell really were like tontis degenerative disc I mean these are things that affect numerically so many more people than cancer and the fact that the the treatment can be non-invasive safe very little if any any side effects whatsoever that was a that was a shock to me because in the cancer space I have been so used to kind of like this wrestling match of Effectiveness versus toxicity right that exists when when new drugs are being developed you know it seems like some of the best ones also

02:00:08 have some of the the the wildest side effects right and it's like how can stem cells be so effective and not have any real side effects like come on with it what is you pulling my leg like come on that's what was so surprising about is like as I learned more about this there's really no downside right and there's a there's a there's an ocean of people that can really benefit from it um without having um to to do a terribly terribly invasive procedure or anything like that well I will clarify there is

02:00:35 no downside that uh severe downside that we've seen so far that we've seen so far correct the the uh the side effects for how many treatments that we're doing uh have been minimal biggest risk on the disc is infection yeah and we have seen two infections it's been over a year and a half since I think we've seen one right but um you know so I I like to just be straight with those number like in in medicine when we go over these numbers with the scientists they like oh so basically yeah yeah we do take you know

02:01:08 sometimes it's like we you know we have these conversations with scientists and doctors and because I mean they're thinking about the total number of dist treated versus the total number of Adverse Events no this is not statistically significant might as well not even happen right um but we do have to be mindful that when we're having these conversations in the public space that hey there is some risk yeah uh but it wouldn't be a risk that would be so far outside the scope that you would get doing any surgical procedure or any type

02:01:34 of anything that involves some B aspirated needle going into your body right so what is a bigger risk surgery or a dis in yeah exactly it's not yeah so not even close it uh you know that that risk profile goes way down when we're talking about stem cells regardless of what the indication is at our Center um compared to the alternative that many patients have and this was a big aha learning uh for me as well is there's there there's kind of like a same type of cultural environment surrounding orthopedic surgery that

02:02:08 exists with chemotherapy right like you have um these techniques that were developed decades ago U many of them are effective some of them are not effective I think orthopedic surgery isn't as lopsided and effective as you know so but the procedure itself you know when I've talked to people who've had it uh any type of orthopedia any type of back surgery uh if I could uh summarize a common denominator um saying is I I'm I'm not the same yeah right there's a lot of that you know what I'm saying like if I could

02:02:45 just kind of generalize what people are saying to me at the dinners and when we're talking to people it's just yeah I had to Sur I'm just not the same yeah right and not in a good way right right like but that's what they want though that's what you stem cells gives you an opportunity to not be the same in a good in a positive way to change and get back to a a a pre-injured state or pre- degenerative State uh in a way that perhaps surgery does not and we we I haven't heard um anyone say that oh man

02:03:22 I got the stem cells I'm just not to say right I just I just have not heard I just not not to say that there's not anybody saying that but I haven't heard right anything remotely like that so what's Wild is there's some weeks because we have uh currently uh well up until last week 15 returning patients a week now we're at 25 we the medication so some weeks when we have our doctor's meetings and go over it's 15 out of 15 that got better it's incredible and I mean it's almost unbelievable we working

02:03:52 on the this paper right now and so you know for this paper that we're doing we had to take all lumbar uh procedures and if anybody got a secondary injection we couldn't add them to the study and it's like Whittle it down to exactly 30 patients out of thousands thousands and so uh this is why papers are so hard to publish like they want them published right but out of those patients and we we're going to be publishing this um in the doc uh one of the scientists was coming up saying I don't think we should

02:04:24 include these patients cuz they didn't stick to the follow-up like they were told but if we just included that that would make 26 patients uh all of them got better M yeah and the four that didn't get better uh got to working out too soon and didn't follow the protocol and uh they hurt themselves afterwards and but I told I'm like we have to include those because we can't have 100% you know it doesn't like we got to show it's important to note that that you know would didn't work right that there's a chance that it couldn't work

02:04:57 for any reason absolutely and that if uh you know in the patient followup there was there was instances of non-compliance it's important to note that well yes so excluding them you know that doesn't give me the full picture right and so I want to uh yeah it just shows you too how good the [ __ ] works I me the idea that those that actually stayed on the protocol % got better that's a while now only 26 patient super small and we definitely have seen patients that have not got better after the discon no doubt about it but that

02:05:31 does show you like some weeks it's 15 out of 15 that got better right and it's like what in the world this is you can't find that anywhere right and um I would say the average is 80% man 80% it's it's it's insane so uh you know we have to focus on getting this FDA approv improved one day we would be doing Society an injustice huge solid for for not everybody who's got back pain everybody every military veteran that's carry packs of gear on their head their neck their shoulders yeah you know defending our country this should be

02:06:05 something that that you should be able to go to the VA hospital and get just and that's it and standard of care keep you off the pain medications keep you out of the surgery right yeah this is it's one of those that has like a huge I mean this this this this disrupts multiple standards of care yes and in a positive way yeah uh in a really beneficial way and you know you know we owe it to people to to make something like this as available as possible uh and that's going to take some heavy lifting across different

02:06:44 different platforms scientifically perhaps even politically uh but you know it's worth it yes right you know it's especially when I have sat at dinner next to patients who are in such severe pain that they are actively contemplating suicide yes right and that's just a hell of a thing to say to a stranger a complete stranger at a dinner yes right it's like okay so how' you hear about this well you know I heard about this on Joe Rogan to be honest with you buddy if this doesn't work I'm probably gonna kill myself yeah

02:07:15 like more than once have heard that type of story where people are in that type of pain and you know when we look at you know populations of people who are at high risk for suicide um and we look at you know what characteristics what type of occupations have they had do they have any of the pain management kind of plays into some of these populations of people uh when studies are had are the are you know do we notice any Trends or any data on people who've had or been diagnosed with degenerative dis or certain chronic pain

02:07:52 diseases and suicide is there a correlation between these things is there a correlation between people who are using opiate management for pain and suicide think we know the answer to that question this starts to disrupt the whole thing you know what I'm saying we could be significantly impacting suicide rates yeah what by by this right and not and not claiming that that's our intention but that could be an outcome of course that would be one of our intentions that would be a great outcome of this all of

02:08:21 this I mean it's unbelievable man I mean like we saw I mean I was a Believer because I saw people getting better but when I saw Scott scan yeah it was amazing that was once you start seeing the M it's like what in the world just happened right and um you know for people uh that do the dis injections actually MRI is not for the FDA something that they uh uh make you have because some people don't and this is across the board with dis issues MH um some people don't get any Improvement in MRI and they're

02:08:56 completely better right and I forget the amount of the percentage of people that uh do MRIs and somebody has a herniated disc somewhere you know like it's like a lot if you do if you were to scan every disc you're going to find on people but um you know the actual disc injection uh we have seen just horrible herniations get 100% better like no herniation Scott was one crazy example he was you remember going to dinner with Scot back was jacked up he was stretching constantly you know and um now he's kite surfing and he's he's in

02:09:30 better shape both of us now than yeah yeah he's working out like every yeah he looks great uh you know he's he's an amazing case but he's not typical I mean he's not atypical to what we see uh very active you know very active person has historically been a very very active person you got a bad back from doing jiujitsu and kiteboarding and doing all this other stuff and you know he comes and does stem cells and now all of a sudden he feels great and not just and that's demonstratively seen on side by

02:10:02 side MRIs right now we know that that's not really the the standard that's that's needed for publication but it is very very telling to make the case on why why do the stem cells work right like why and and then there's the other secondary anti-aging effects yeah right you know people are coming in because of their shoulder or their back or their hip or whatever not realizing that our body is interconnected and that the stem cells could be positively impacting another part of their body which is Rel

02:10:34 lungs gut everything yeah so you know this is this it's amazing you know what interesting about this you know we we kind of like you know the gold prospectors that find gold early in in the prospecting phase you know that that is typically a sign that there's more gold MH right and you know in in the fog of innovation we have we have we have a sound and a signal that this is the general direction that we should be going with cellular development and the more we innovate the broader that that pool of people who can

02:11:10 benefit from it and you know just shout out to other centers that are doing different types of research with stem cells um eye disease Alzheimer's you know these you know our thus far our Focus has been on muscular skeletal but I think that that grows with the expansion that we have in our laboratory in our clinical spaces this is this is huge yeah you know just think of the people who came for their back and then all of a sudden it's like other stuff start feeling better well yeah I mean you look like

02:11:38 Laura's dad he got um he he had two heart attacks yeah he did stem cells last December we did a uh echo cardiogram or and EKG uh he got the left side of his heart back pumping again wow I mean he's now has movement in that heart wow that's incredible wow um and you know we've seen a lot of people with yeah heart issues and this was just you know we don't make any promises or anything absolutely but it's amazed me every month we see somebody with a heart condition come in and their heart is much better than it was when they first

02:12:15 came in yeah there's there's there's so much unexplored territory with this you know the challenge for us is going to be like focusing right because there's so many things and so manyways that could benefit from this you know how do we distill and drill down into what's going to have the highest impact uh you know not forsaking other things but we there's only so many hours in the day right like there's only so many I would love to just sprinkle Sim CES everywhere and see what they could do but it

02:12:44 doesn't work that way well I mean once you know the the lab gets done yes uh I will be moving my focus to that yeah you know it's going to be you know I got I'll be laser focus here in a few months once this lab is done because we got to get this one done we've got to get our lab develop tests done we got to get Joselyn her um cancer vaccines that she's making uh done and but within that we're going to have a focus of what we're doing with the stem cells um and how we how we really move that forward

02:13:22 um you know moving into more of the the cancer side so you know we were chipsa Hospital the original Gerson Hospital yes very uh proud of the history of the hospital yes um 1996 K's toxins was brought in from the uh German doctor uh who's our who's our German doctor oh yeah yeah sorry the German Doctor Joseph Isles uh brain far um and uh he was a famed German oncologist did amazing amazing work brought the vaccines the cancer vaccine idea to chipa combining the Gerson diet therapy with K's toxins and a couple

02:14:06 other little peptide vaccines he was doing uh tumor Li vaccines that he was doing and um but you know as we've evolved we purchased the hospital in 2015 we started seeing patients not get as could have response in 2018 cuz all the immunotherapies were coming out they'd already done these they already pre-treated right Co hits we pivot to stem cells and building this lab we're rebranding Tam Center which stands for translational and Advanced Medical Center what are you most excited about what we're what we're

02:14:44 doing and what we're launching uh next year okay the the thing I'm most excited about is the translational and you know for our listeners and viewers the translational is the marriage of realtime science and medicine I I believe that many people have an assumption that this already exists and it does not uh in fact it's in such small quantities it's almost embarrassing uh that's what I'm most excited about the fact that our team our doctors our scientists have even faster and ready access to realtime science

02:15:22 real time data and vice versa um because before we embarked on this Evolution into Tam you know I knew about kind of like the provider side of the equation and doctors not necessarily having access to realtime science and by the time that you know a paper is published not exactly real time right right uh given how long it takes to curate the data and then there's the writing process and then there's the journals and back and forth by the time it gets to something that you can read if you have the time

02:15:57 to read then it's not exactly real time um but then I you know I became educated on the the the scientist perspective on this and how scientists typically do not have access to real-time clinical data uh they often don't know patients or they haven't seen patients or they don't really understand the workflows of of how carers administer so it gives them a different sense of purpose and translational space of how the science that they're doing even though they're disconnected from administering care to

02:16:27 patients yeah you know they're in a space where the data is so close the speed is is is there and they can say wow this is having a real impact right right we have brilliant scientific Minds in the United States all over the world that probably toil away and maybe I get a sense that they don't get to see you know the impact of what they do yeah right and uh in our Center that's not the case uh you know you are working on things and and there's a big vision and an initiative that aligns science and research and and and

02:17:05 clinical science and medicine in a way that isn't very common right right it's not it's not non-existent it's just not common yes um and for a center our size it's it's almost unheard of absolutely so uh to it I think that I think the fact that we are a smaller organization makes it more potent absolutely because we're more agile just in general oh yeah so uh I'm excited about that I'm actually excited to see what the outcomes are um you know I know with the team that we have uh of scientists advisors scientific advisors

02:17:41 clinicians uh our relationships with our partners in Mexico um the development of you know of bioethics boards so so that we have the appropriate guard rails around around our Innovation exploration I mean that I can only imagine what's going to come from this AB right I have very high expectation and which started with just a few short years ago very skeptical like whether SK step cells not that they didn't work but to the degree that they would be have this big of an impact I wouldn't I wouldn't have

02:18:10 suspected that yes same I mean when I look at what we've created you know the full hospital all six stories actually we added a six story right right uh is renovated yes I mean every square foot oh yeah um the lab on the sixth floor was always a dream I wanted a lab across from our conference room so uh and with the doctors and scientists on the same floor so we could go talk to them when we had questions and go to the lab and like uh We've created the sixth floor where the doctors and scientists share

02:18:44 workspace and then the lab is All Glass and you can see through and go work you know and it's you know you have to have access special access to get in there of course but um It's All Glass too so it's very very you stand on one side of the building you can see all the way to the ocean yeah because it's glass and um it's a very collaborative type workspace that really hasn't been done before and if you look at what we've combined like we just got the deal with ro one of the biggest Pharmaceutical

02:19:21 diagnostic company is actually the best diagnostic company in the world Ro is by far the best we're going to be uh their Reference Lab um we have all Ro equipment uh digital pathology will also be Ro um full uh Optical genome mapping Next Generation sequencing uh flow citometry cellular manufacturing four uh separate um uh rooms for cell manufacturing uh it's incredible that we have all of it Under One Roof it's amazing um creating the limbs and bioinformatic system where we can get all that information one it's it's been a big

02:20:08 pull dric it is it is it's been a big pull we we we're here though yeah um we're here we are here uh you know the the the lab and the expansion of scope and Capac capacity is you know we we were talking briefly before we started recording about the the task force and getting the team ready for what's about to happen yeah like there's there's this you know expansion of material scale which like okay great we've got more square footage we got more room to have chairs and beds and and that's a fairly easy to discern

02:20:47 type of expansion or scaling the the expansion of scope is so mindful what we can do it the the bigness of that and the impact that it can have is far beyond what we have done right that we are in a preparatory season with the team with our managers with our leaders all the way down to the cleaning staff this is a new paradigm yeah you are going to be asked to carry a different Vision a different scope a different type of thing and we want to give you the tools now because you know when the rocket

02:21:27 takes off and you might have think you might think that the rocket has already taken off it has not off it has not no uh when this happens you got to be prepared yeah right uh maybe in the past we've moved so quickly that we haven't stopped and said hey all right this is let's retool let's get this but our team has been so agile and versatile they can adapt quickly right we see this time with the completion of the hospital renovation as ideal like hey when when this grand reopening happens we are

02:22:01 entering into a new season a new place a new space and you want to come into it with all of the good eat the meat throw away the bone and a new set of tools mhm to accommodate this expansion of scope right is much bigger this is the equivalent of in that one laboratory building 10 more hospitals M right like that material scaling is big and having 10 more hospitals or we had 10 extra square footage that have been just amazing the scope is that big or bigger absolutely or bigger without having to build 10 hospitals it's that

02:22:42 big or bigger Y and and people have to be U mentally emotionally professionally prepared for that yeah right and and have some tools to be able to handle and operate at a higher level because we're stepping into another realm of innovation yeah there's going to be a different type of support and criticism there are going to be different types of patients with different concerns um and and we just need to be we need to be on top of this and the team has to have a certain level of understanding going into this that wow

02:23:16 it understand the bigness that that we are in right now yeah it's not just a change in the in in the company it is a new company it is and you think about how strategic yes everything that we've done is I mean if you look at when you walk in on the first floor uh to the left is a iso7 lab it could it could turn into an iso7 lab we're be going to be using it for research um with three hoods big hoods glass where you can see the people in in the lab working we knocked out a bunch of different beams

02:23:55 in the front lobby and opened it all up and have glass going into the CT room that you hit a button and it fogs but the CT and the room behind it are both Interventional Radiology Suites which we're going to be Interventional Radiology is going to be a key aspect of what we do yep we have two Interventional Radiology suits on the second floor we've rebuilt the surgery area made the uh recovery area bigger but we built a full ICU yes so now we'll have full ICU capabilities before we had an ICU but it wasn't built out to the we

02:24:32 weren't seeing ICU patients but now we have that capacity now we have a you know licensed ICU um the sixth floor I mean it's incredible what that lab can do and the speed at which we can get results for patients genomic results Next Generation sequencing results results that normally would take four to six weeks we can do in 48 to 72 hours and just blasting through it um with the cellular treatments you know having somebody like Joselyn uh who's a rockar yeah uh in in making these cellular treatments um you

02:25:16 know one of our big focuses is lowering the cost to make these treatments oh of course yeah you you look at like the uh you look at like car T cells 600,000 to a million dollars well it costs a lot for them to make it it really does yeah you know our goal is to get it to patients for under $50,000 yeah and you know so how do we solve those problems well we look to make our own reagents we look to create our own uh ways of develop developing products inh house that lower the C uh the cost across the board

02:25:53 and we can do it because we're all vertically integrated yes um the cost to run a clinical trial I mean so you know the cro charge between 50 to $100,000 per patient wow we have our own cro yeah I mean we we have everything that we need and that hasn't been done before and add to it that we have doctors working with Scientists right that doesn't happen at all people take that for granted yeah it's like man doctors working for we got all these phds we have our PhD students we have a PhD program as well uh we have all you know

02:26:28 almost 30 doctors and all that brain power is going to be on that floor yeah trying to figure out the best treatment and diagnostics for patients and it's going to be incredible yeah yeah we are we're in a wonderful space uh we did the hard thing and we're in a good spot now and we're about to do a series of hard things to expand the scope of this because we can talk about this but it hasn't been done yet no and by us or anyone so in doing it or even attempting it you know there's going to be new

02:27:01 challenges that come with it things there's the unknown unknowns right car right so being prepared for that yeah uh you know I'm going to keep going back to preparation for at least the the the known unknowns right cuz there's going to be some unknown unknowns being prepared as best we can as a team um leadership everybody kind of being on board to set really appropriate expectations with the patients um you know you mentioned vertical integration and you know I think what we don't pat ourselves on the back enough for you

02:27:39 know we innovate a lot in Market facing therapies and Technologies but we also innovate a lot in our supply chain because we've had to make things work we have a full we have a full distribution we had to make that whole thing work um because it it it hasn't been easy we had to do the hard thing well it's you we're offered accounts from Big Pharma to run their distribution in all of Mexico and we turn it down by the way like we don't have time for this sh but we're not dist but that's you know that's what we've

02:28:11 we've set up the ability to do that and they want us to um what about the documentary we have coming up okay um the documentary is exciting um you know filming something for that long first of all I've Never filmed or been filmed doing anything ever right I've never been in a movie or commercial or anything so you know just understanding the process of how a documentary film is made has been fascinating to me um working with nickn and his team those guys are our friends now like Carlo all the guys are good um

02:28:49 I'm excited about because it it almost takes a professional Storyteller to rap what has happened to us over the last nine years into something that other people could understand right because we could that I mean that could have easily been a a a three-year television series right of of of Boll of all of the ups and downs that are associated with it but I'm I'm excited that it does give the world an opportunity to see who we are um what our mission has been and is to be um the impact that that we're trying to make

02:29:29 and are making in this world and if if Legacy matters at all then the story behind Legacy is something that is often not told right A lot of times we see the statue we see the tall building but we don't see what went on to erect that structure or that that statue that's the legacy is what's left on well in this film you get a chance to see what goes on to build this Legacy MH right and that's I if you're a legacy minded person that's important because it didn't happen overnight right right it wasn't

02:30:09 easy it was a lot of Challenge and struggle and you know because we're focused on other things who's going to Chronicle that right right they're just going to see the outcome and say oh wow Tam and that look at this is great but not really see the whole process that led up to this yeah so um the documentary will hopefully Express that this is not something we're not a flash in the pan Hospital organization we have been through things that most other organizations haven't even had to think about at all and and

02:30:51 we've prevailed and this film will highlight through the periodic and long I mean what was a seven years of filming years yeah seven years of filming um The Evolution that we have gone through in our vision the successes the failures how do we deal with certain things and I I think that gives people a good context or good look into this and if they're if they're looking at the Tam brand or the CPI brand and if they are like me and they're very values focused hopefully they'll be able to look at that documentary and say

02:31:28 these are the people behind the brand that I want to support or being in support of so yeah I'm I'm excited about it U I think that Nick did a great job telling the story about it's about 90 minutes long hour and 30 minutes and to pack seven hours or seven years rather in an hour and 30 minutes I mean it's like how do you do that maybe maybe one day they got to make it into a longer deal but um he did a great job and uh it looks like that we're going to be getting into Sundance uh which would be awesome yeah um I'm I'm I'm so ready

02:32:04 to just hit different film festivals I'm ready I'm ready to do it all let's do it man yeah anything else you want to say before you uh man you know uh I I can't express how grateful I am for you oh thanks man you know you've been a good friend since I met you yeah and you're you're a good person thanks man I love you I love you too but I get te even saying that man I love man but uh we've been through a lot man and it's uh there's there's a very few people that uh you have in your life that you could trust 110% and that

02:32:39 you you kind of like enjoy going to battle with you know and um not that we like to battle but if you do got to go to battle uh you know you're one of those guys so I love you too brother right on man all right great podcast yeah