0:00

artists are pretty fed up with Spotify these days they pay absolutely nothing but on our platform artists could

0:06

actually earn a living and really monetize their music through

0:11

streaming tun FM what are you doing with it what's the the idea behind it yeah so

0:17

we're sort of like a web 3 Spotify or a crypto jukebox if you will we're really

0:22

trying to change the game and really uh upgrade the music business model and that's all possible through the

0:29

blockchain technology we've created a token called Jam that actually can facilitate micro payments for every

0:36

second that uh the music gets played the artist gets paid we facilitate that transaction with Jam directly from The

0:43

Listener wallet to the artist wallet artists make over a hundred times more than they would on

0:51

Spotify Andrew Anar how's it going welcome to the podcast thank you yeah so

0:57

um you're in Nashville from Philadelphia have a blockchain project called tun FM

1:04

Matt was filling me in but um I don't know if you know that you know Matt and I are big fans of the blockchain and

1:12

Bitcoin and uh ethereum actually a lot of different ones and uh when he told me

1:19

about this I was like that'd be a that'd be a great interview and um so thanks for coming talk a little bit about tune

1:26

tun FM what are you doing with it what's the the idea behind it and where do you want it to go yeah so we're sort of like

1:33

a web 3 Spotify or a crypto jukebox if you will um we're really trying to

1:39

change the game and really uh upgrade the music business model that's out

1:44

there it sort of change the way the industry Works uh and that's all possible through the blockchain

1:50

technology and through tokenization crypto uh and so what we've done is

1:55

we've created a token called Jam that actually can facilitate micro payments

2:01

so our motto is when the music is played the artist gets paid so uh for every

2:06

second that uh the music gets played you know the artist gets paid um and that we

2:12

facilitate that transaction with Jam directly from The Listener wallet to the artist wallet um and so on the streaming

2:20

side alone artists make over a hundred times more than they would on Spotify and artists are pretty fed up with

2:26

Spotify these days uh they pay absolutely nothing you know peanuts compared to well compared to say touring

2:33

or anything um or compared to us but on our platform artists could actually earn

2:38

a living and really monetize their music through streaming um and we've taken that a step further uh with the digital

2:45

assets and also known as music nfts so essentially they can tokenize their music uh attach experiences VIP access

2:53

backstage passes things like that um and really monetize their super fans so that's a super under under monetized

3:00

area where there's a lot of value to be unlocked well so um how does how does

3:06

Spotify pay out because I think uh most people don't understand uh how the

3:12

artists are paid from uh Spotify per play but it's really not even per play how how does it work

3:18

with Spotify yeah so it's not really per play uh because they can't actually guarantee uh per play amount because

3:24

there's too many sort of moving parts you've got basically there subscriber Revenue and then you've got their ad

3:31

Revenue mostly subscriber revenue and then that's sliced and diced up against like billions of

3:37

streams um and so that's sort of problematic so the labels sort of strike a deal where they get 70% of the revenue

3:44

they don't know what that revenue is going to be they don't know how many streams there's going to be but somehow it m it works out to like 0.004 cents

3:52

per play and then the artists typically get less than 10% of that so you got that going to the rights holder and then

3:59

the artist gets a fraction of that but on our platform we actually pay directly to the artist or rights holder for that

4:05

matter 1 cent per minute so a 4 minute song would be 4 cents so several orders

4:11

of magnitude more and that's where we get that 100x figure how has um your

4:17

company been growing like how many users or listeners do you have right now yeah

4:22

so uh we've been growing uh we have over 100,000 users we have over 10,000 artists we' have everyone from

4:29

independent artist around the world to celebrity artists so a lot of cool stuff so you have about 100,000

4:36

users how do the artist get paid so when someone comes to your your site do they

4:42

like uh how what's the revenue model yeah so um even though we're a web3

4:49

platform a lot of traditional web 3 if you don't know what that is it's like sort of crypto blockchain type of

4:56

platform um it has a very complex onboarding process you need to like

5:01

download metam Mas Chrome extension you need to buy ethereum and send it over and do this and that log in with the

5:07

wallet all this kind of nonsense that most non- crypto native people don't truly get intuitively so we've taken the

5:15

tried and true web 2 model of just email and password and we actually set up your

5:21

non-custodial wallet non-custodial just means that you own your keys in your wallet and your crypto and nobody can

5:27

take that from you nobody has custody of of those coins or assets um we

5:34

actually encrypt your private key with your password we have a private key recovery protocol if you need to reset

5:40

your password so it's not one of these things if you lose your keys lose your password you lose your crypto um but we

5:46

still have that security um with multisig and um with the non-custodial

5:51

then we associate to jam which is our token automatically and air drop you a

5:56

th000 jam um so we're doing all the sophisticated stuff on the hood so to the user they just sign up email

6:02

password uh and click play and boom you're listening to music and you're automatically paying the artists for

6:09

every stream so we facilitated all the transactions seamlessly you just use it like you're using spotify SoundCloud

6:16

Apple music what have you and all the the transactions are happening automatically so as an artist you'll

6:22

just have payments flying into your wallet all the time as a listener you'll have payments you know going out to all

6:29

the different artists that you're listening to but we also work the other way so if an artist we allow artists to

6:35

promote their music so if they want to expand their fan base to new listeners who haven't heard their music before

6:41

they can basically set up a budget behind a certain song that they're promoting and then you have a sort of

6:47

play to earn aspect where the listener can actually get paid to listen to promoted music if they're discovering

6:53

new music so the payments actually go both directions wait uh how does the listener get paid how does that work

7:00

so say like you know if you've ever run like Facebook ads or something uh you

7:05

put a certain budget you have a row ads a sort of return on ad spend um and um

7:11

the creative is basically you know whatever your ad is in our case it's like setting up a song as the ad the

7:19

song is the creative uh where they say they put a budget of a thousand Jam uh

7:24

to promote this song um only first time listeners who have never listened the

7:30

song before um can actually get paid for that first Stream So the same rate the

7:35

number of seconds they're listening sure um so there's a pool of promoted music that you can actually play to earn um

7:42

pte as they say um and so you can just for discovering that for of going out a

7:48

limb and trying something new um that's worth more to the artist that first stream uh than it is to The Listener

7:55

sometimes sort of like the radio is when you get a you know song played on the radio um a lot of times labels artists pay to

8:02

actually have that promotion um and then if the listener loves a song uh they

8:08

stream it again or stream one of the other songs from the artist or stream the whole album uh the moment they

8:13

stream at least one or more uh that artist is basically earning an Roi on

8:19

that promotion budget so if the music's any good they'll have a high you know row as equivalent or Roi for their

8:25

promotion so we just want to give artists the tools um to actually Market

8:30

on their own and expand their fan base and not necessarily need a label uh to do marketing for them and then they can

8:37

use their earnings in jam and turn it around and expand their fan base and actually earn more in the end so um you

8:45

know with Spotify what is their payment model so Spotify basically um you know

8:54

they take 70% of the revenue they sort of divvy it up between the rights

8:59

holders based I'm sorry what what is a um someone that's listening to music okay yeah when they subscribe I you know

9:07

it's like $9.99 now it's actually $12.99 a month uh but just for ease of you know

9:14

say say it's $9.9 a month is about $120 a year now it's actually more than that that's you know changed um but $120 a

9:22

year um on average uh the average Spotify user streams about 12,000

9:27

minutes per year which is around a little less than 20 hours per month um like is 17 or 18 um and so what

9:37

that works out to is um on our platform if you were to stream the equivalent 120

9:45

you know or sorry 12,000 minutes per year um that would also equal $120

9:53

because we're one penny per minute yeah um but if you consider the fact that

10:00

uh you could actually get paid for a lot of those streams as a listener uh we're offsetting those costs um and if you you

10:07

tend to listen to more music and discover more music uh more experimental you'll actually get paid even more or if

10:13

you're streaming less you'll pay less um so it's more of a pays you go model more

10:19

all aart rather than a sort of all you can eat buffet situation interesting so

10:25

you know basically if the person spends the average amount of time

10:30

on your platform it costs the same as Spotify but the artist gets paid 100

10:37

times more yeah literally yeah exactly it would it would cost the same slash

10:44

less um because now that Spotify is increased to $12 a month it's actually less and if you stream any music that's

10:51

paying out to you it'll be less so yes um we sort of wanted to set that

10:56

equivalency uh for the average listener now actually cheaper no matter what MH

11:01

um and the artist gets paid 100 times more yeah so for artists how do artists get on on your platform they just sign

11:09

up like anybody else um the Spotify I guess they have to sign up to Spotify too well they can't actually upload

11:15

directly to Spotify I I guess so when we do our podcast on Spotify do we upload

11:21

it or how does how does that work we uploaded to Spotify so I guess artists artists can't do that but they go

11:27

through Distributors so there's like Distributors like Dro kid or the orchard or there's a few other companies in

11:34

grooves this and that um they would upload to those companies those companies would then distribute to

11:40

Spotify Apple music all the above and so instead they would go directly to you

11:46

upload their music yeah so um yeah Spotify tried to have this artist upload

11:51

thing and the labels sort of freaked out and pushed back and they made them take it down uh because if they're allowing

11:58

artists to upload to Spotify that's sort of cannibalizing their revenue and so they're not making

12:05

any more revenue and they would just be paying out less to the rights holders so

12:11

it's um it's one of those things where with that business model it doesn't actually work with our business model it

12:16

does work because more people that upload the more artists are to get paid so it's you know depends who you're

12:23

listening to uh but yeah anyone can just come to a sort of more like SoundCloud where they can just create

12:29

their profile upload their music the only difference is we actually pay the artists vers SoundCloud doesn't pay

12:34

anything to artists MH and so someone comes to your platform they put their information in

12:43

um you airdrop them you said a thousand uh Jam yeah jam and then

12:50

uh they just kind of do they say okay I'm G to put 20 bucks on here and see

12:56

how long it lasts me is that kind of then it runs out or like what's the yeah I mean they can easily reload it uh with

13:02

credit card put 20 bucks on there um sort of like you go to a casino you buy

13:07

some chips go to the cashier some cash get some chips play your games win or

13:12

lose and go cash out and leave um same situation it's like buying tokens to put

13:19

into a jukebox type of thing you can get in and out of them whenever you want um

13:24

but yeah I mean you can just wait till you run out of tokens and then we'll prompt you to buy more mhm you can buy

13:30

them on an exchange you can buy them uh on a DEX if you're into that um and send

13:37

them in so there's many ways to get in and out of the token how's the um how's

13:43

the token been trading it's been good um we're on about 20

13:49

exchanges um all International exchanges so mexc is the biggest one you couldn't

13:54

buy it in the United States well there are ways to do it um but uh you know technically all these

14:03

are international exchanges it's up to them whether they'll let you in um you

14:08

know we'll once we get a US legal opinion letter we'll do all the U us exchanges but 90% of the crypto markets

14:15

are international yeah so but when you when someone

14:22

uh is on your platform you give them your token so you can buy yeah with uh

14:29

so they could put $1,000 under your platform and just hold it there they could be worth more than yeah you buy

14:36

with a credit card in the US I see yeah okay yeah interesting

14:42

um how's it the the security of this is it on like a erc20 platform or or what

14:48

so we've actually decided to go with the Next Generation blockchain that's far

14:54

superior to any ethereum based protocol um or even ethereum variant type of

15:00

thing uh so it's not smart contract based uh we're built on a layer one

15:05

called hyera hash graph hadera yeah hidea y okay and so hadera's native

15:10

asset is harar if you're interested in that um but basically hyera is by far

15:16

the most secure fastest cheapest best governed layer one protocol out there um

15:23

we're sort of OG hyera Partners um or one of first partner first token to be

15:31

list to launch on hyera the first hidea token to be publicly listed and so you're you're technically a layer two

15:37

then you're you're Layer Two we're not really Layer Two we're just the DAP you could call Layer Two we're just a Dap on

15:43

top of uh uh layer one our tokens are actually layer one native tokens okay so

15:49

the smart contract is sort of sitting above the layer one so an ethereum erc20

15:54

token is sort of like it's not a layer two but it's it's sitting on a on a abstracted away from the ethereum Native

16:02

token right so but the way hidea works is that the tokens that are minted on hyera are the same code as the the base

16:10

layer token H bar so our token Jam has the same High Fidelity throughput fee

16:18

structure everything speed everything security that H bar has so it's basically the same thing as harar

16:25

whereas if you're to look at the fees throughput speed security of an erc20

16:31

versus um ethereum is actually slower more expensive and all that um so it

16:37

just sort of works a little bit differently um it's you know the fees are like a thousandth of a penny so we

16:43

can actually do micro payments so that was kind of like a table Stakes thing like with ethereum like transferring uh

16:51

ethereum or even usdt these days it's cost me 20 30 40 bucks crazy y so like I use Tron for

17:00

that it's like a dollar whatever but still a dollar like or two sometimes $3

17:05

our fees of transfer a token are like a thousandth of a penny so orders a

17:11

magnitude cheaper so with these micro payments which is a new business model for media consumption in general like

17:18

the equivalent of like reading a newspaper and paying for every page or article that you're reading um or you

17:25

know it's basically a new way to pay for media where with credit cards essentially it has to

17:32

be at least $510 before it's worth it with the credit card fees of 30 cents plus 3% mhm with Bitcoin and ethereum

17:40

like it's got to be $50 or $100 transaction before it's worth even using

17:46

those you know if you're going to pay 20 $30 sometimes more sometimes over $50

17:52

for a transaction um you know you better be transacting like $1,000 before it's even

17:58

of to pay that crazy fees um but for us you know with a thousandth of a penny

18:04

fee we can actually do micro payments that are fractions of a scent say half a penny few cents for a

18:11

listen and it's super fast so we need Super High throughput um so hundreds of thousands

18:17

of transactions per second which is also not possible with any ethereum based protocol those are like 10 to 15

18:23

transactions per second yeah and you got Visa doing 70,000 transactions per second across the whole network the

18:30

whole world so we needed a layer one that is better than Fiat better than

18:36

Visa lower fees than Visa faster than Visa all these things yeah so it

18:41

actually has to be better than Fiat obviously with ethereum and all these other Legacy blockchain things there are

18:47

advantages against Fiat you know with the non-custodial thing and crossborder payments and sort of that type of stuff

18:54

but on the like actual fundamentals of speed and fees it's got to be better uh

19:01

and then you go a step further with hyera it's the most secure blockchain so

19:06

it's technically a distributed Ledger technology or DLT um but they're the

19:11

only ones who have achieved full-blown asynchronous Byzantine fault tolerance

19:17

so know that's a mouthful uh in the blockchain world um

19:23

everyone is trying to be like the most Byzantine uh so it's a sliding scale of

19:28

house secure it really is I see it's based on this thing called the Byzantine generals problem where back when you had

19:35

basically the Mongols invading like uh Byzantium and like you know the fall of the Eastern Roman Empire um which became

19:44

like Constantinople and Istanbul that city um now in Turkey um imagine you

19:50

have a a city you have four generals on each side they decide they want to

19:56

invade uh at least the the main General wants to invade tomorrow at noon so but

20:01

how can he get this message to all four generals each side of the city and guarantee that they all get the same

20:08

message at the same time so he sends out three Messengers you know first

20:13

messenger gets to the next general says tomorrow noon all right we're all good the next one has to go all the way

20:19

around he gets killed on the way right that that that General on the other side

20:24

of the city doesn't get any message the other General on the on the other side

20:30

uh gets intercepted by a spy uh gets bribed and basically is told to tell

20:35

that Jal tomorrow at 2 p.m. mhm so then you have instead of all four corners

20:41

invading the city you only have two one doesn't even know about it one is two two hours too late so that's the

20:48

Byzantine General's problem so if you think about it think of these generals as nodes or computers right when you

20:55

have blockchain the whole idea is this concept of consensus right so that would

21:01

be the consensus of the generals they all have consensus right and they have to send these Messengers he can't just

21:07

like get on a walkie-talkie and say hey we're tomorrow at noon right um he has

21:12

to send these Messengers and same thing with the internet with these notes you can't just have this real time everyone

21:19

knows the same thing at the same time because I mean you're limited by the speed of light you know speed of electricity speed of the internet a

21:27

message still has to be sent from one node to another node halfway across the world um it might take a few seconds to

21:34

propagate that message but basically you have to tell every single node or computer in the network the same thing

21:40

this is the balance of my wallet and there's $10 in this wallet or 10 Bitcoin or 10 whatever MH um and not to get into

21:46

the Weeds on this I'm almost finished basically um all of those nodes all

21:52

those wallets agreeing on the same ledger balance is what we call consensus

21:57

so that's how Byzantine is it so with Bitcoin you have these things called minor confirmations right and so they

22:03

say like okay well maybe after 10 minor confirmations that's good enough for us to be confident enough in this

22:09

transaction it's 10 different nodes basically agreed on this they all have consensus but that you're getting to

22:16

99.9% and closer to closer 100 you never actually get to 100 you never actually have mathematical Byzantine finality you

22:24

have like this probabilistic consensus 99.99999 um with herera you actually

22:31

have mathematically provable 100% finality and the closest you can the

22:37

highest level of Byzantine is asynchronous Byzantine fault tolerant so bft is everyone's trying to be Byzantine

22:44

fault tolerant but that's a degree an asynchronous Byzantine fault tolerant is like the highest level and basically

22:50

what that means is that even though when you're sending a transaction out like

22:57

all these nodes are getting it at a different time like you know milliseconds after that one or nanocs

23:03

after the next one they all get the message at a different time the way that they're able to all

23:09

agree on the same message or the same balance at the same time the same time stamp is that they basically vote it's

23:18

they call it virtual voting but they vote on the agreeable the agreeable Tim

23:23

stamp they're all on the same protocol using the same software they basically agree to take the median time stamp

23:29

amongst all the time stamps that all the nodes get so the median time stamp

23:35

because it's not the average because the average might not exist on a certain noes the median time stamp is the middle

23:41

Tim stamp that all the that a node actually received then they all agree

23:46

that we got this message or this transaction at this time and then that's

23:53

full finality it's mathematically provable nobody El no other blockchain is able to achieve that abft gold

24:00

standard interesting so long story short on that is just the most secure and then

24:06

the final thing I would say about Hader is that it's best governed so with Bitcoin you've got this sort of like

24:12

oligarchy of miners um they kind of like run the show um and then with e ethereum

24:19

you have the like benevolent dictatorship of italic and he calls the shots you know he can do whatever shut

24:25

it down mint whatever you know change the code you know it's up to him um and

24:32

you know do you really trust like the you know vitalic or whatever um some

24:37

people think he's an alien I don't know but first time I saw him speak I was like that guy seems like an alien yeah

24:43

exactly um but hidea is actually created while there are the founders mans and Leman Leman bear being the chief

24:49

scientist sort of math genius guy they Aller of hadera yeah they actually taught mathematics at the Air Force

24:56

Academy they sold multiple compet like Ping Identity uh for hundreds of millions of dollars so they're not even

25:02

in this to make money like they've already they've done pretty well um they've sort of taken a a backseat to

25:09

the governance they running sw's Labs which is like the creator of the technology and they're building

25:15

applications and things on hadera uh but they have this thing called the governance Council so it's sort of like

25:21

a Democratic Republic type of situation where you've got 39 members they all

25:27

have term limits they have vote voting rights they can vote on different proposals a lot of members though so so

25:33

the the reason behind the number is that they want everybody would be able to meet in one room and there's a tiebreaker votes it's not a number so

25:40

that's why now you could do it with 19 sure um but those members are all big

25:45

corporations like everything from Google IBM LG boing some of the biggest banks

25:51

in the world they recently signed Dell yeah and a bunch of other ones they're

25:57

all ual owners of the network so the governance council members are true

26:02

owners uh they've all committed to build like real world applications they've invested a significant amount of sum of

26:09

money into the network and they also run nodes so they're the permission node operators I there's so many right now I

26:15

mean you have I mean ethereum salana uh yeah

26:21

cardano um I haven't after the last Bull Run I kind of stopped paying attention

26:28

yeah and I can go through one by one why they're all inferior yeah put an H bar

26:34

I'm not H bar coin um let me see this sucker here I

26:42

have heard of it I I think somebody mess me top 30 you know multi-billion dollar

26:48

token do the uh where's the graph at I want to see the price do uh one year let

26:57

me see where we're at where is it over there it's doing pretty well over 10 cents recently 3.6 billion market cap

27:03

but you're saying um you're saying it's a superior platform yeah so pull up

27:09

those uh that's the 39 governed that thing on the right that post that's a grab if you can pull up that graphic it

27:15

shows uh I think it shows all

27:22

the there was a thumbnail there yeah yeah that thumbnail is I

27:30

guess some of the uh yeah they recently so you're saying that the CIA runs Hira basically yeah just like that CIA runs

27:39

Bitcoin you know I don't know about that I think the NSA probably somebody from the NSA probably made it but uh yeah but

27:46

these I mean it's these are all multinational oh I know I'm looking at Fortune 100s so I mean realized

27:53

uh yeah yeah that's good though I mean it's I mean here's the thing

27:59

blockchain is going centralized right I mean it's of course it is that's real

28:05

world applications you have to and so when I say the CIA is running this I

28:12

it's a joke but I mean you got Google you got IBM you got all the CIA you know

28:18

uh deep State Boeing um type companies but that's kind of a good thing if you if you have a coin if from an investment

28:24

standpoint you're looking at it being uh applied worldwide I have heard about it

28:30

I don't know why can you buy it on coinbase yeah yeah I should just buy it so the thing is like hidea positioned

28:35

itself as the Enterprise grade blockchain Network right and we're not

28:41

like you know into the whole like Cipher Punk like blow up the banks type like

28:49

counterculture kind of vibe when we're talking about just like it's essentially payments rails technology sure it's like

28:56

database like the way I see choosing a layer one to build on is sort of like

29:02

choosing a database like AWS versus Google versus Oracle versus

29:08

mongodb anyone using your website doesn't know whether you're on AW nor do they care honestly it's like a pure

29:14

technological decision what is the best security what's the ease of use what's all these things so for us it's like

29:21

what's the throughput of the speed what's the security what's the the fee structure was the most important like

29:27

low fees right um those types of things um and so for us like I couldn't find

29:34

anything that could match up to that yeah um and you know have you looked at

29:39

Casper I've looked at them all yeah um they all sort of fall short somewhere um

29:46

there's a lot of especially in software you're always making tradeoffs so when they speed up when

29:53

they say these Layer Two Solutions like um let's say polygon for example

29:58

it's basically taking ethereum and putting it on steroids by speeding up making it cheaper but they sacrifice

30:05

security so it's you're pulling one lever and the other one's going the other direction um and you can't do that

30:12

with so you need a fundamentally new technology like hidea it's like it's not

30:17

a traditional blockchain data structure it's actually a dag it's a directed a cyclical graph which is just a different

30:24

data structure you don't have to really know what that is but it's just Works differently it's just fundamentally Next

30:30

Generation more efficient sure it's instead think of it like instead of a single Lane highway it's having like a

30:36

10 Lane on Super Highway yeah so you can just fit way more traffic you know and

30:42

that's the way hde's architect from the beginning and it's scalable you could build another Highway next to it what do

30:48

you think of you know like the future of you know something like ethereum I like ethereum a lot different than I like at

30:53

Bitcoin but um what do you think of the future of of you know an application like ethereum uh

31:01

and do you think it's eventually just going to get swallowed by these newer Technologies yeah I mean eventually

31:07

maybe I mean but like we still use gold you know we still transact in Gold like there'll always be a place for these

31:13

Legacy we still have horse and buggy sometimes you know um you know even when we're 50

31:20

years into the electric car Revolution and 80 90% of the car you're still going to have internal combustion gas there

31:26

still be there it just won't be as relevant yeah you know at some point the 8020 will

31:32

flip yeah I mean the great thing about like I said I I don't look at ethereum the same as Bitcoin Bitcoin major store

31:39

value you know it's uh digital gold only 21 million ever

31:46

mind yeah and it's the oldest technology it's the slowest worst Tech yeah like you can't build on bitcoin like people

31:52

are trying to build on bitcoin like why wasting your time this whole ordinals thing I know maybe angering some crypto Bros but

31:58

I it's just not realistic like I'm want to build on the most robust fastest best

32:04

most secure thing Tech like the way I would choose any technology that I build

32:09

we're building on dozens and dozens of technologies that most people don't care about for some reason with crypto they

32:15

care because it's a speculative investment too you know because what's interesting about the crypto world when

32:21

you have a token is that all of a sudden every startup is basically a public company right like yeah it's like

32:28

imagine if you could actually buy into all these Silicon Valley startups you can't right um you know only once

32:35

they've raised hundreds of millions of dollars and second it's even hard on the secondary market so what I think is

32:41

really great about tokenization and having coins is that like and it's

32:47

different from stocks and I don't want to compare it to security at all because you don't have liquidation preferences

32:53

you don't have governance rights you don't have um rights to you know dividends or or earnings or anything

33:00

like you would with a owning the stock in a company I'm not talking about

33:06

Securities but even a utility token or whatever payments token or how whatever

33:13

the use case for the token is it kind of has this weird effect of like

33:19

that company is basically like a public company now um so we're kind of like a public company like we have you can call

33:26

them investors people have bought bought into jam and in many great ways they're

33:32

the biggest supporters people who have invested thousands of dollars they're the most invested in the success of the

33:39

project right they are the biggest supporters and a lot of times with startups like they're all about like

33:45

find your thousand fans or your 100 super fans right and same thing with artists too you can survive if you have

33:52

a 100 super fans or a thousand super fans who are going to every show buying all the merchandise buying the

33:58

experiences and that's also something we should talk about cuz we're monetizing that with nfts um but startups can now

34:06

have that like super bought in like almost Ambassador level like um really

34:14

supportive uh investors in the project uh that can really take it to the next

34:19

level so yeah I mean it is in some ways not not necessarily yours but I'm saying

34:25

just in general I can see why it's looked at as uh a security um although

34:31

it's not I mean but in certain ways I mean the idea you know some people in I

34:36

don't invest in the stock market to be able to vote or to have dividends you're

34:43

speculating right absolutely so that's how I mean I look at crypto and um it's like buying wheat on the Commodities

34:49

exchange or buying coffee or steel because you think the price is going to go up so that's really what crypto is

34:55

they're mostly just Commodities absolutely and it's so it's it's it's fun because what what I like about it I

35:02

mean there's a lot of things I like about it actually but the idea that someone without a lot of

35:08

money can do their research on a company and or a coin or a token mhm and invest

35:17

in that and potentially 20 50 100x especially if they understand at least

35:22

so far how the market cycle has gone like right now we haven't even well

35:27

we'll look back and say we're in a bull market but we're historically we're not yet and so you know we're about to hit

35:34

that having event that has caused this trajectory of uh all of the coins to go

35:41

up in the end uh well not all of them you know what I'm saying like the vast majority of the market to get a ton of

35:47

money into uh a ton a ton of dollars into and um it allows because you know

35:55

if you're just a regular uh person without a high net worth you know

36:01

you can't you're not even allowed to invest in projects unless you're an accredited investor and which is

36:07

complete [ __ ] it's sort of like democratizing Angel Investing yes so there's this class of Angel Investors

36:13

they can put 10 20 50k into a project and basically earn 30 50 100x Moon you

36:21

know and now this is saying any regular Joe can do the same thing with the token

36:26

but also it's better than that because they can have instant liquidity you can sell it on the exchange versus with a um

36:34

Angel investment you're locked in for three to five years and who knows whether you'll ever get your money out so you need a way higher risk appetite

36:40

so this is Mak making uh Angel Investing fully liquid Angel Investing open to

36:46

everyone and that's what's so disruptive about crypto essentially at the end of the day so you can do your own research

36:52

and do all that stuff but anything that brings a lot of institutional liquidity like for example the uh Bitcoin ETFs now

37:01

you've got big black rock money coming directly into Bitcoin and bitcoin's sort

37:06

of the feeder funnel where everything all the liquidity percolates down to a lot of the other tokens and that's why a

37:12

lot of tokens are super correlated with Bitcoin um but the actually the day that the Bitcoin ETFs were announced was the

37:19

same day we announced our funding of the 20 million that we raised as well for our token uh so that was just totally

37:26

coincidence but uh it's been super interesting to see how that's had an effect on the market and the different catalysts that will

37:32

happen in the future so um but this thing like tun FM is going up as a coin

37:39

basically you know like a for instance 2019 uh we we were launching

37:44

what's called United Cancer Centers uh we were doing it on a security token offering so we went to the SEC we were

37:50

going to be one of the first people to actually do a token offering oh that was like a true security token yes we were

37:55

doing a security token yeah and um stto and we were early to the party we didn't

38:02

succeed in raising the money uh Co happened fundraiser fell kind of flat on his face but it was really a great idea

38:09

we were going to be the first institution to implement the new right to try legislation oh W through Cancer

38:15

Centers throughout the United States and our team was amazing that's cool but we were early if we would have done it in a reg if we were just like raising money

38:20

in a regular format not in a security token offering yeah uh we would have done it I'm so glad we now cuz um we're

38:29

a lot further along with things that are just as important maybe more important

38:34

uh to the to the world uh and our initial

38:39

idea will get done eventually but it's going to be even better now that we we didn't succeed on that security token

38:45

offering but I say all that because you know these

38:51

these these platforms offer such an opportunity for the little person you

38:56

think about the United States the United States is the last Beacon of Hope for entrepreneurship you can't you can't

39:03

start a company pretty much anywhere else uh in the world um and have the

39:09

opportunity you know an immigrant comes to the United States they're three times more likely to become a million than someone's born here yeah why because

39:15

they see the American dream but crypto in many ways reminds me so much of that like you were talking about like the

39:20

Angel Investing it gives people that opportunity to you know really be a part

39:27

of something early on and we're still really really early yeah I mean I think it's very much rooted in American

39:34

fundamentals of entrepreneur entrepreneurial spirit and everything um but it's super important

39:40

disruption because Financial disruption because Silicon Valley is very much an

39:46

Insider Club it's like for the Bros you know and they also invest in very like

39:54

Niche kind of things um every fund has a thesis so they only basically invest in

40:01

okay we've decided to do B2B SAS companies that are making an ARR of 1 to three million per year right if you

40:08

don't fit if you're a square peg and round hole if you don't fit that perfectly yet you're not getting a check from that company yeah most of them have

40:15

a super narrow thesis um and even they say they don't like they do because they have their

40:21

check size and they have what they're looking for you know um and it's really

40:26

a tin tiny sliver of the possible businesses and business models that are out there and if we actually wouldn't

40:33

survive if it wasn't for crypto right I mean we had so much working against us first off we're a music company M I

40:40

can't tell tell you how many times I've heard uh are you kidding me we won't touch music with a 10- foot pole right

40:47

there's so many dead bodies out there in the music everyone in their grandmother wants to start a little music app right

40:52

it's almost like laughed out of the room like why would you waste your time on music the industry is a disaster blah

40:59

blah blah it's super shyy Shady whatever sketchy characters so there's music

41:05

right right then we're a Marketplace they're like oh man that must be hard like you got the chicken and egg problem

41:12

like you got to have the supply side you have the demand side like a music Marketplace like okay cyanara can't

41:20

uninvestable um that's just really hard road to go down huge mountain to climb

41:25

if you can pull it off like hats off you you know this is the type of feedback we're getting and then we're a consumer

41:32

product so we're not B2B so the table Stakes for consumers like you need millions of users for anyone to take you

41:38

seriously not a few hundred with B2B you have a few hundred paying customers you're like golden you know you can

41:44

raise VC dollars left and right um so consumer music Marketplace all these

41:51

things are hard and now you can add in web 3 like oh well yeah we can't really touch web 3 it's too complicated at the

41:57

accounting is Nightmare blah blah blah but now that we are web 3 and we

42:03

have our token I don't need any VC I've had a thousand VC meetings now we can

42:09

raise money in the token not just from retail investors um but institutional people

42:16

who buy the token um private Equity firms who are way more sophisticated

42:21

than VC's you know they can look at the investment in a very

42:27

like financialized way where say okay we get this discount we have this way of buying the token and we have this

42:33

purchase program this facility and they can create these sophisticated Financial

42:39

products and investment strategies around tokens because they're liquid right so it's just way more their ball

42:46

game the way they've done investments in small and midcap public companies they can take those structures and bring them

42:53

to the Token markets and so there's a lot of big multi-billion dollar private Equity firms that are really sort of

43:00

like the new VCS of of this era um but

43:06

you can basically go at it with retail and bootstrap it with retail because

43:11

like hey you know in order to build a product you still got to pay your engineers you know like we the best

43:16

engineers in the world and like they still need to eat and provide for their families so it's like you can only get

43:22

so much for free mhm and you know we've raised a few Angel checks here in and there you know 20 50k at a time for

43:30

several years before we like really released the token and started financing the company that way um and our first

43:36

angel investor is Andy herzfeld who co-created the Macintosh which is pretty cool oh that's awesome and we've had a lot of great people who believed in my

43:43

vision and sort of looked past you know the doubters um and we've had some you

43:48

know institutional stuff but really this company didn't really take off until we

43:54

decided to go full-blown web 3 have her own token mhm and without that we

43:59

wouldn't be able to do what we're able to do now that's awesome that's awesome yeah like when did you start working on

44:05

this project so we decided to do the sort of web 3 music streaming thing uh around

44:13

2019 that's when we started working on like the platform as it stands today and

44:18

how how did the idea come about like so were you like having a beer with friends were you like just looking at the the

44:23

industry what what brought well yeah I mean the story goes well before that so me and my brother have been working on a

44:29

music tech thing for for many years before that and uh this all started um

44:35

so first off I'm a classy trained uh violinist so me and my brother are both

44:41

uh musicians we're both violinists um I won a bunch of competitions when I was younger Tour the World with some

44:46

Orchestra so I've always sort of been in the music space um come into contact with a lot of artists and musicians and

44:53

understanding the plate of The Starving Musician and stuff like that my other brother's also singer songwriter guitar

44:59

piano all the above and um in many ways I wanted to create a platform for them

45:05

like the artists you can't monetize because there's some something wrong with the fact that you know you've got

45:11

these YouTubers making tons of money you've got Instagram models and influencers that make one post and make

45:17

30k 50k so easy to monetize all these other forms of Music uh other forms of media but music is the most important

45:24

form of media in my opinion um because it actually has a very important uh

45:30

emotional uh component to it and um really has a major impact on the brain

45:37

uh and the way you know music can put you in a certain mood or make you feel better whatever um and musicians and

45:43

artists it takes a tremendous amount of skill and and work over a lifetime to do that uh versus like just shooting a

45:50

video or shooting a a photo on Instagram um this is like woefully under monetized

45:56

compared to how super monetize everything else is something's wrong with that why is that and it's really an

46:03

artifact of like the way the industry has worked uh for years and it's sort of been keeping a damper and stunting the

46:10

growth and monetization of music and music monetization has always been influenced by the technology and

46:17

distribution of that underlying media and so I always felt that there is a new

46:23

if we leverage the new Payments Technology the new distribution techn technology you know with streaming for

46:29

the distribution payments crypto for the payments uh we can actually Usher in a new era of monetization and

46:36

financialization of the music industry and really change the business model of the music industry at large and so so

46:45

this started you know going back uh when I I went to Brown and I started this

46:50

thing called musicians at brown with a few friends and um because everyone I

46:55

was meeting was like sort of undercover virtuoso musician I you know become friends with himone and like a week

47:01

later and be like oh yeah I'm like I'm like one of the world's best Young piano players or whatever or like I'd like

47:08

kill it on the trumpet or whatever and we'd Jam all the time at Jam sessions all the time I was always playing music

47:14

I was always bringing my violin everywhere on electric violin playing Bluegrass Jazz folk indie rock

47:21

everything I even joined a kmer band get to my Jewish roots you know do all that

47:26

fun stuff oldtime string band Bluegrass all this kind of cool stuff um love that

47:31

stuff I love improv and all these things so I was really expanding my horizons Beyond

47:37

classical um and um through that experience I was like you know I feel

47:42

like everyone here is a musician and and I read a statistic once that 80% of adults identify as a musician even an

47:49

amateur musician most people oh they pick up the guitar at some point that's cool like yeah play the bass whatever

47:55

sing in the shower um yeah yeah it's like it's just like a fact of life like and especially at like one of these

48:01

types of Institutions you know like brown where you have like a lot of like highlevel people who have achieved a lot

48:08

like you tend to have some like very extraordinary you know Talent on in the

48:14

music space but like it's kind of just like it's it comes with the territory and so I wanted to create a

48:21

directory basically for all these musicians to find each other so that's

48:26

musicians at Brown came out at first was just a Google form fill it out and then

48:32

when we thank you for your answers we I actually linked a public link to the

48:37

answer spreadsheet which is just a Google sheet uh that has everyone's answers that they filled in so it was

48:43

this massive spreadsheet with literally hundreds and hundreds of entries and

48:49

each entry they're answering like 10 20 questions like you know what instrument do you play what genres do you play um

48:57

are you looking to join a band are you looking to start a band are you willing to be part of this kind of project or so

49:04

you would have musicals for example that would need a pit Orchestra so they would need a drummer they would need a you

49:09

know some string players they would need some some brass or whatever it was uh you'd have people who were they're

49:16

trying to form a band they need a drummer they need a basist they want a saxophone player you got Jazz jams you

49:22

got funk jams you got all these music groups so I think this would just be super super useful to have like a

49:28

directory of all the musicians on campus MH so I I created that little form took

49:34

me like 20 30 minutes and um and then we had this thing where you could post it

49:40

where there's like a digest that the whole every Brown student would get um an email with like stuff that students

49:47

would post like gigs or whatever it was announcements like student group announcements so just put it out there

49:53

and overnight it blew up like literally hundreds of people signed up and ended up being thousands and out of 6,000

49:59

students on campus I think we had at least 4,000 had filled out this form that's cool um so there goes the 80%

50:06

thing and um and the great thing about Google Docs because it I didn't actually

50:13

build anything was that you have this chat feature on the right and you could see who's online and it shows you live

50:20

in real time people using this form it's like a shared document right right so

50:27

you always had 30 40 50 people having this form open clicking around and all

50:33

these colorful boxes are jumping around things lighting up like a Christmas tree people are using the chat talking about

50:40

this I need this I need that it's this very Lively thing and I was like wow there's really something here and that

50:46

sort of planted the seed for this idea of like what if I were to build a music

50:51

social network type thing and um and I was getting into Tech I was getting the

50:57

startups I started the first startup incubator at Brown so the first sort of Y combinator style startup accelerator I

51:05

was able to negotiate to get the the first fund provisioned from this thing called the social Innovation initiative

51:12

somebody had donated anonymously like 100k and they didn't know what to do with it I said hey I know what to do

51:17

with it you know why don't we uh give grants out to startups and like actually have a formalized thing because Stanford

51:24

had their stardex program Harvard had Crimson labs and Prince NE their tiger labs and I wanted to create Brown

51:31

Venture Labs now called B Labs um still there now they have a $20 million

51:37

building and now they pitch Brown as like a school for entrepreneurship that's awesome when I went there like

51:43

entrepreneurship was kind of a dirty word like everyone's going to financ and Consulting and Banking and all this kind of stuff but I was like you know that

51:50

was I got I went after 2008 um so when the economy kind of

51:55

bottomed out entrepreneurship and startups was kind of the new thing and Facebook was

52:01

starting off the Facebook movie came out and so that was sort of the vibe was like go out on your own go out west go

52:08

try and make it big MH uh in Silicon Valley so I started the first accelerator I also wanted to go through

52:14

the accelerator myself with this idea I was like I want to go through with this music Network idea see what happens so

52:21

that was like the first 5k um started building like got a a bunch of my friends who are engineers

52:28

and computer science department some my fraternity brothers and I was like Hey

52:33

guys uh free pizza and beer every weekend I get some P I get a few pizzas

52:39

case of beer uh come work on this cool music project we're going to hack this music Network together it's basically

52:45

like musicians at brown but for everybody um they're like sweet like and that's how it all started like started

52:52

hacking every weekend then they work on it during the week and then and then once the school was over and the program

52:58

was over the entrepr the accelerator thing I was like well I want to keep this going so I moved out to Silicon

53:04

Valley rented a house in South San Francisco kind of did the whole like Facebook Mansion type experience for the

53:11

summer brought some of our top Engineers who wanted to work with us for the summer who uh you know could have gone

53:18

to work at Facebook and Google and all these places but wanted to do the startup thing um and gave him a little

53:25

tiny stuff in then we kept working on it and then uh what you was this this is uh

53:31

that you did this this is like uh 2012 2013 okay yeah um and then um you know I

53:38

met up with Andy herzfeld and Palo Alto and he show tell me all about Steve Jobs

53:44

and all this kind of thing it was really cool and he put the first like 30k in you know and we're like oh wow like we

53:51

actually raised some money like it's a real thing yeah um kept it going then I decided a year or two later to move to

53:58

Austin Texas um met some people there who really love we we're doing and backed us

54:05

with like 250k they're like okay keep it going keep it going um we built it up built it

54:11

up um but then we kind of ran into the problems with Fiat like the credit card problems like $5 minimum trying to do

54:20

downloads and split up the fees amongst all these people and things kind of

54:25

stagnated a little bit to be honest and we're like well where are we going to take this right built this cool Network

54:31

cool Community Cool Tech we have really great Tech um but like something is not

54:38

quite right with the business model like the the financial component basically Fiat was holding us back uh and that's

54:45

when I had the idea to sort of pivot in the crypto world the 2017 happened and

54:50

I've been mining Bitcoin since like 2010 oh nice so unfortunately don't have that

54:55

hard Drive I I want to hear about that and say um yes so I heard about in 2010 and

55:01

my uh my college roommate uh had a gaming computer so we're like oh and that's when you could still mine Bitcoin

55:07

on a on a gaming computer it's start mine Bitcoin I think we mine like a few hundred or few thousand Bitcoin oh man

55:13

at that point it was totally worthless was like a it was just a joke and we forgot about it and then the hard drive just bricked one day couldn't get it oh

55:20

man um crazy stuff but so I've always been having crypto in the back of my mind oh why don't we accept Bitcoin on

55:28

on you know our music site at the time it was called hero FM um and basically

55:35

um but I knew that because it was super slow it take 15 20 minutes to do a transaction and the fees were 1520 $30 I

55:43

was like well this is obviously never going to work until it's like way better than credit cards it's not even an

55:48

option so then once I heard about hadir hashgraph which is around 2017 at the time it was just hash

55:56

technology it hadn't even been launched as a public Ledger called Hira um I got a hold of the white paper

56:03

sort of tore that up uh got a hold of some of the original Founders and chief

56:08

Architects and engineers and I said I want to understand this thing all the way down to the nuts and bolts spent

56:14

several hours on the phone like digging into and asking all the questions how is the virtual voting how does the gossip

56:20

protocol work how does a asynchronous Byzantine Fallon some of the stuff I was explaining earlier I really got full

56:27

understanding of it I don't understand this part of the white paper whatever and then when it sort of dawned on me

56:32

okay this is actually what I've always been looking for this is the technology that will enable us to do streaming royalty micro

56:40

payments true seamless payments fractions of a penny anywhere in the world instantly quickly super low fees

56:48

super secure the whole bit and then I was like well guys when are you launching like a public network like

56:53

ethereum or whatever so I can actually build on this thing they like give us a few months like and we'll invite you to

56:59

the launch so I went to the launch in New York uh was this whole big thing all

57:04

prod big production they announced their initial Partners they're talking about music as a key use case music streaming

57:12

getting paid and I was like that's us guys so we part within the first week of hadera launching we're sort of Partners

57:19

Flagship OG Partners were're the first dap to launch uh when the token service

57:24

came out we're the first token to Launch first to be publicly listed so we've been flying the hidea flag you know

57:30

since the very beginning and so we're hadera first hyera Native hadir all day

57:36

uh but yeah I mean that's what's cool about it and we have to be on hiir and there's no other choice that we have uh

57:42

because it's the only Tech that can support our use case and I'm super happy that we are because nobody's come even

57:48

close uh to being able to match what they've been able to put together so um

57:54

yeah we're really excited about it and you know once we then it's it was a few years you know since 2017

58:01

2018 um of just figuring out what we're going to do with the business model and then 2019 we started building ton FM

58:09

proper on hadera so so that's when tun FM really started um but it's gone

58:15

through many ideas and iterations I've been thinking about music and Tech and building marketplaces communities and

58:22

even my brother uh who were Partners um he was at pen and he was recording at

58:29

Penn Studios uh producing a lot of music and he wanted to create a marketplace

58:34

where you could sell tracks like sell Beats uh just independently any Open Marketplace for music and it was funny

58:41

cuz we coincidentally decided to start a music tech company completely independently and then when we were

58:48

together for Thanksgiving I was telling my dad I was like hey I'm sted this music tech thing and he's like oh Brian

58:53

started music tech thing I'm like no you're confusing I'm I'm the one doing the music tech thing and he's like no

58:59

actually uh he was talking to me yesterday about this you should probably talk to him about it and uh we're like

59:05

both doing a music tech thing but completely different angle different idea I was more musician social network

59:12

he was more Open Marketplace thing they're like you know what why don't we combine these ideas put them together

59:18

create a music social network Marketplace the whole bit and it's way

59:24

bigger idea way more powerful and then when we got the crypto web 3 sort of put into that for the financial

59:31

economics component to create this whole music economy MH then it became a really

59:37

big idea and so that's the vision that we're going after is creating a whole

59:42

Global Music economy we have our digital asset marketplace where everything is

59:47

bought sold and trading in Jam so all the exclusive experiences whether backstage passes or meet and greets or

59:54

cool things you can buy from artist as well as the music streaming everything's in Jam so we see this

1:00:00

streaming as sort of the main commodity the way you have energy electricity in the regular economy um and there's a

1:00:07

certain price for that commodity and then you have all the digital assets or all the different things you can buy in

1:00:12

the normal economy and dollars are all priced differently and trade differently some are fixed price some are auction

1:00:18

you know to price find the price Discovery um and so that's why we're creating this whole Global Music economy

1:00:25

where Jam is the global Reserve currency for music and essentially um you know

1:00:32

music's the universal language and we need this Global Reserve currency for music uh where anyone can off and on

1:00:40

ramp um to their local currency whether they're using pounds or Euros or dollars

1:00:45

or Korean dollars or whatever whatever they have you know um and that that's really kind of the overall vision for

1:00:52

what we're doing how how how do they off-ramp their money from Jam so we have several Fiat on-ramp and off-ramp

1:00:58

Partners think of it like payment processors when you try and buy something do you want to use Apple pay do you want to use Google pay do you

1:01:05

want to use Amazon pay do you want to use stripe do you want to use this very similar in crypto you know we have a

1:01:11

partner called banksa we have a partner called c14 there's a few others that we're on

1:01:17

boarding um there's dexas there's exchanges there's many ways to get in and out sure you can send it in and out

1:01:23

it's you know all decentralized and everything but for example banksa you can buy the credit card you can sell put

1:01:29

it up back on your debit debit card bank account you can get in and out of the token into any local currency Australian

1:01:36

dollars Brazilian dollars Euros pounds doesn't matter we're so dollar Centric

1:01:43

we think the whole world operates in dollars it actually doesn't right yeah that's cool I um you know getting money

1:01:52

into a lot of the coins can be difficult sometimes s i I understand yours you can just do a credit

1:01:58

card uh and then purchase the you know purchase the music from there but it's not always that easy and um it's yeah

1:02:05

there there's trouble and it is a friction point and we're not in the business of being a you know money

1:02:14

transfer MTL type money service business we do have an MSB license it's pretty impossible to get MTL licenses in

1:02:21

every uh money service business oh I see um cuz you're using tokens for things um

1:02:27

but MTL money transfer Li is not to get into the Weeds on the regulatory side which I'm also working on um is uh it's

1:02:36

basically to be a Fiat on and off ramp or an exchange in the US you need these

1:02:41

MTO licenses and they're extremely difficult and extremely expensive and very costly and timec consuming it's one

1:02:48

of these things that it shouldn't be that way but it's just a nightmare um so we have to use partners for that sure um

1:02:55

and we have seamless integration with API and it's all on our website and it's embedded in our site so you never have

1:03:01

to leave and all that stuff and we make it easy we have to kyc and we do kyc

1:03:07

sharing that's basically authenticating who you are um but even so once you get through all that and you plug in your

1:03:13

credit you buy crypto then your bank says oh well we don't allow crypto purchases we hate crypto and the first

1:03:20

five 10 times I tried to buy Bitcoin on coinbase Wells Fargo Bank of America's

1:03:25

like no go know whatever yeah and then once in a while some random credit card will work you know and some exchange

1:03:33

will work and another one won't so that's kind of the case across the whole crypto space it kind of sucks it's hard

1:03:40

to get money in but once you find a way and if you really want to you'll find a way and I think I've been I found that

1:03:47

c14 is actually great what is what is c14 it's just another Fiat on ramp and on ramp so moonay is an example of an on

1:03:55

andof ramp um it's sort of an embeddable widget where you can buy Bitcoin buy ethereum

1:04:03

buy any one of these H bar any one of these tokens nice but we need need to find on Rams that will support Jam so

1:04:10

it's kind of complicated like they have to Source liquidity from an exchange yeah so they take the credit card

1:04:16

payment then they have to buy jam with that and so like getting the right Partners so getting the Fiat on-ramp and

1:04:24

off-ramp Partners off-ramp is even harder than on ramping it's always easy to take money but then to sell the jam

1:04:30

and then send the money to a bank account very difficult stuff from a financial standpoint but we want to make

1:04:37

it seamless for the customer and we have these two partners now we have another one called like Swip

1:04:43

Lux coming in and you know there's half a dozen uh other partners like Moon pay

1:04:48

is a big one but they won't work with your token unless you're on binance and so we'll be on binance pretty soon but

1:04:54

you know it's like gotta walk before you can run type of thing and we're build we're on tier one exchanges like like

1:05:01

mexc and bit Martin and white bid and these are all solid exchanges top 10

1:05:06

exchanges top 15 um but there's a couple more on our sites you know okx qoin htx

1:05:15

binance few other how do you get on coinbase coinbase yeah of course so it's funny coinbase is actually a small

1:05:22

exchange compared to like binance it I mean there's a few us exchanges there's

1:05:27

binance us and there's coinbase there's Gemini there's Kraken those are your

1:05:33

sort of Mainstay us exchanges MH uh we're not yet on the US exchanges but we will be hopefully this year um that's a

1:05:41

regulatory question where you know we've been advised that it's best to uh stay

1:05:47

away until we have certain legal documents sure dot some eyes ginsberg's

1:05:54

a terrorist basically yeah I mean yeah I mean you've got that you don't want to say that but I'm just

1:05:59

saying like I'm just think yeah yeah yeah that legislation but I'm I'm working on the legislation front to have

1:06:05

um I put together a whole policy brief and a proposal for a comprehensive Federal regulatory framework okay um and

1:06:13

the in a nutshell basically says like look a it's got to be Federal can't be a state-based approach you know it's great

1:06:19

that we have these state-based sort of Laboratories for crypto regulation um but we need to get from

1:06:25

from 0 to one we need regulatory Clarity right having zero regulation means that

1:06:31

there are no rules to follow uh so we don't know what's going to be legal and what's not legal so we're always

1:06:36

operating this gray area of like oh maybe it'll be like this it'll be more like this or maybe it'll be like that so

1:06:41

less like that but we need to know like this is what's the law so we can follow it it's one of these weird situations

1:06:48

where more regulation is actually good for business um so that's why it's super bipartisan which is nice so there's this

1:06:55

lumus Jill brand bill that's going through um that's bipartisan and I'm helping work craft that uh legislation

1:07:02

as well with some other Senate offices and congressmen and different things so I'm working on the hill a little bit to

1:07:09

help put this legislation together and so it's got to be comprehensive it's got to be

1:07:14

Federal um it's got to be comprehensive so it can't just be about exchanges it can't just be for stable coins it can't

1:07:21

just be about Bitcoin it's got to cover all the bases you've got to have token issuers you got to have Traders you got

1:07:27

to have Dows you got to have daps you got to have Smart contracts all these things that make up the crypto world and

1:07:34

it can't be this dog fight between uh the SEC and cfdc Turf War the cfdc yes

1:07:42

it would be great if they regulated everything as a commodity but not everything's a commodity sure and they don't want anything to do with it and we

1:07:48

don't SCC can't do everything CU not everything's security either so I'm proposing to have this sort of middle of

1:07:55

the ground new agency superan called the digital asset commission which basically

1:08:02

would regulate be the sort of regulatory body for it with subject matter experts people actually understand the

1:08:08

underlying Tech know and Care yeah yeah and so they know and they care about it

1:08:14

and yes if you have a pure security delegate thatc if you have a pure commodity delegated at cftc but they

1:08:20

would be the ones making that determination the reality is most of these assets are hybrid

1:08:26

somewhere in between if some security aspects some commodity aspects maybe

1:08:32

completely different like wild animal and some of them they change from one to the next and back um so that's why you

1:08:39

sort of need a new regulatory framework yeah that makes sense to actually get there well much much rather have like a

1:08:45

digital asset what do you call it digital asset uh commission commission Securities and Exchange Commission SEC

1:08:52

you know I mean it's just it seems like Ginsburg I of course I don't know personally I'm just reading articles and watching interviews but um Gary giner

1:08:59

yeah Gary gin Ginsburg say Gary Ginsberg not Ruth Bader Ginsburg it's Ruth bad Gary Gensler Gary G and Warren Elizabeth

1:09:07

Warren also trying to kill Krypto yeah it's been wild to watch and it's unfortunate because you know I was

1:09:14

watching okay jelly roll is one of my buddies and he was testifying in the

1:09:20

Senate and it was um uh uh oh what is her name

1:09:27

we actually just said it uh Elizabeth Warren was you know like uh interviewing

1:09:33

him and she brought up the whole crypto thing and how bitcoin's used for nefarious things it's like well yeah

1:09:39

Bitcoin I'm sure it's used for some bad things but what about the US dollar the

1:09:45

US dollar a nonsense like way to characterize crypto because honestly

1:09:51

like the numbers for cash are as high as 80% of cash is used

1:09:56

for illicit purposes really yeah it's crazy but with crypto it's like

1:10:02

0.1% are used for elist of purposes because crypto is the most trackable thing there is everything you know but

1:10:07

the average person doesn't know that so when they when they see Elizabeth Warren saying oh it's so hard to track it's like no there's a whole blockchain you

1:10:15

can just go on there and look and see what the transaction was you see what the hash code code was it's like yeah

1:10:22

yeah it's crazy because like you know I mean there's no reason even use cash most of the time people just you know

1:10:28

say they're buying drugs for what like elicit is like the only use case but like with crypto people use it for

1:10:34

business like because I can't you know send a wire like I'm sending like dozens

1:10:40

and dozens of payments a day receiving sending I can't deal with the wires and the banks for this or the credit cards

1:10:46

and the fees like right I use crypto on a daily basis run the business right and

1:10:52

it's way better than Fiat on just like having to deal with going to the

1:10:58

bank or calling the bank deal with wires like compared to what I do is like it's

1:11:03

crazy so like there's a real use case for crypto payment RS is just way far

1:11:08

superior to the existing you know AC or wire oh we have Swift networks and stuff

1:11:15

yeah we give a discount uh 15% discount for Bitcoin or ethereum oh nice and so

1:11:22

um which sounds crazy we don't ask them to put it in a stable coin how do you get that discount what's that you get a

1:11:28

discount no we give the the the patients a discount if they pay us in Bitcoin yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and we're

1:11:33

hodlers so we just I don't really care what the price is when they send it I just want as much as I can't put as much

1:11:40

in of of my own money or the partners couldn't in Bitcoin or ethereum that

1:11:46

people could send us you know because the payments are 25,000 receive than to

1:11:51

get it in yeah so I'd say about three % of our revenue is Bitcoin and ethereum

1:11:59

and uh you know it it makes that's your stem cell thing yeah that's that's a

1:12:04

it's funny you say that because when I I got a stem cell treatment and I paid with h bar oh really oh that's funny

1:12:10

same deal yeah yeah that that's that's pretty cool I mean you know it's we've got a pretty big operation we're the

1:12:18

largest manufacturer of stem cells in the world wow so um we we have an operation that's awesome and uh but you

1:12:25

know I also love Bitcoin and ethereum we all do yeah there's three Partners Scott

1:12:30

drick and and Francisco and myself and uh you know yeah people uh laugh because

1:12:37

we'll have big Bitcoin guys or ethereum guys like you don't want this in a stable coin first I'm like no you're

1:12:43

just send it as is RIS we'll give you the 15% discount we actually dropped it to 10% uh in February we're at 15% for

1:12:51

the for the first year and a half and um you know it's perfect because you're

1:12:57

basically dollar cost averaging throughout the year yeah because people are paying at the you know random times throughout the month that's funny and uh

1:13:03

you know it's it's if you believe in that great you know I always say we should have accepted Bitcoin early on

1:13:09

for the music uh we would have had a ton of that cheap Bitcoin you know but it's fine you know once we decided to create

1:13:16

our own currency and basically mint our own money and create the value behind it

1:13:21

that's when things really started changing for the better you know that's when we started really being able to not

1:13:27

always be in a Sho string budget and bootstrap everything like actually you know grow and scale the company and

1:13:33

actually build all the things we want to build quickly not take forever are you able to take a loan off of your crypto

1:13:40

or like off of your company yeah there are there are crypto lenders yeah

1:13:46

there's like crypto L I'm guessing more on an Institutional level have you yeah yeah yeah yeah that's something we're

1:13:52

exploring okay cool yeah that's that's been the only problem like these ETFs are coming out and I'm like you know

1:13:58

I've got a good amount of Bitcoin and ethereum and it would be great to be able to you know oh that's real easy

1:14:03

loaning against Bitcoin ethereum there's plenty plenty of providers but the interest rates are crazy like 15% or

1:14:09

something oh really yeah you look at nexo at all no what is it an nexo no I have not I think they're a crypto lender

1:14:16

you just you know you send in your Bitcoin and you borrow against it nice I to check it out there a lot of uh

1:14:22

providers like that it's a whole business there's I mean there's probably a dozen of yeah there's a bunch I've looked at I just haven't never found a

1:14:28

place that has reasonable reasonable interest rates certain loan to value maybe only loan like 70% against the

1:14:34

value I would only do 20% actually just cuz you have that fluctuation like

1:14:40

20% um and I I think that's kind up to 70% yeah yeah well where the Market's

1:14:46

going you know the entire Market though I mean you know bitcoin's at about a trillion uh ethereum's 350 billion

1:14:55

course or so um if we have a good bull run this go

1:15:00

round uh obviously har bar will go I mean I I have heard of it so somebody texted it to me a couple weeks ago

1:15:05

actually and I kind of got out of the the um really the alt coins because yeah

1:15:12

I've always done if I were just stuck with Bitcoin and ethereum these years I wouldn't you know I would have a lot

1:15:17

more money it's like the s&p500 yeah exactly exactly but something like har bar you figure out those those good

1:15:24

applications though I mean it does make sense I'm I'm going to buy some today so you got H bar customer but um you got to

1:15:31

buy Jam that's that's I if I can uh get an easy on-ramp I'll I'll throw throw some cash in Jam yeah just download uh

1:15:38

mexc and uh yeah check it out yeah this Market though I mean you have an

1:15:43

opportunity too because let's say uh what what do you think this this next Bull Run what do what do you think

1:15:49

is going to happen with Bitcoin first of all uh in the next 18 months or so um I

1:15:55

mean it's hard to say um you know I could see Bitcoin easily going over

1:16:00

100k I I don't see the whole million doll Bitcoin happening anytime soon not

1:16:05

going the moon maybe maybe never maybe someday I don't know but like I said earlier I think Bitcoin is like super

1:16:12

old Tech it'll always be a place for Bitcoin it's like gold gold will always

1:16:17

go up super rare you know super slow High fees low transactions per

1:16:24

second it's it's like the oldest SEC like it's a horse and buggy right then you got your ethereums of the world is sort of like your internal combustion

1:16:31

engine right your old cars and then you've got something like herera which is like Tesla all the electric cars so

1:16:38

just fundamentally different rails you know just works differently hits different you know so it's uh so I see

1:16:46

like you know 80% of the actual real world usage being ending up on platforms

1:16:52

like Cadera and others um um that are of that caliber um there aren't really any

1:16:58

that are as good but sure there are things that are close enough sure um and

1:17:04

uh yeah but like things like Bitcoin one ethereum will always be around it's not like they're going to disappear I just

1:17:10

think they'll be less and less relevant over time yeah see I mean my thought is I do look at Bitcoin as digital gold and

1:17:18

the more money that goes into Bitcoin the better everything else is going to do cuz that's basically that's that's

1:17:24

the on basically it is an onramp you want it to hit that million

1:17:30

because I mean just think about that if Bitcoin were to hit a half a million or

1:17:35

a million I mean hadera would be at probably if if it so that the market cap

1:17:42

there would be about 10 trillion uh to 15 trillion in that that

1:17:48

range 7 half trillion so yeah I you'd have a maybe a trillion dollar market cap for haer at that point yeah Hader

1:17:54

would probably be a few at that point yeah but the thing is it's all like percentages right like you know

1:18:00

bitcoin's starting at you know 50,000 whatever it is

1:18:05

40,000 so going to a million is the same thing of going from like a 4 cents to

1:18:11

like $10 or whatever the the equivalent percentage is um so you know it's um

1:18:18

it's great to have this huge number right like but then again that also makes it like less like

1:18:26

usable in a way because um like the tokenomics it's really just it's a

1:18:31

choice that you make to deal with like how easier the numbers to deal with so it's very hard to deal with if I'm

1:18:36

buying a coffee oh I'm spending 0.0000001 three4 Bitcoin like what the

1:18:42

hell is that you know just like the numbers are weird it's feels right to

1:18:48

spend like one two three four or five of xcoin to buy a cup of coffee right and

1:18:56

so and whether it's 0.000000 whatever versus 1 to 10 singled

1:19:03

digigit numbers has to do with your total Supply your circulating Supply the

1:19:10

tokenomics the choices you've made right how many decimals do you have on the

1:19:15

token like with dollars we have two decimals with Bitcoin we have eight decimals ethereum there's like 11

1:19:21

decimals you know sure we chose eight for Jam just you know for good measure

1:19:28

um we could have gone with less or more or whatever but certain point it's like how many decimals you going to have and

1:19:35

these meme coins they have you know sort of the opposite of Bitcoin like where

1:19:41

there's 21 million Bitcoins so the prices are always like tens of thousands of dollars per each unit MH and then

1:19:48

with mean coins there's trillions in Supply so each unit is

1:19:53

0.00000000 one whatever so in order to buy a cup of coffee you need like 10 billion tokens to buy a cup of then you

1:20:01

feel like you're in a inflation land like in Africa or something or I don't know the viar Republic is probably a

1:20:07

better one um so that's really just a choice of like what's a reasonable number to have

1:20:14

like easy to deal with numbers yeah um where things cost a reasonable amount so

1:20:21

you know we chose um basically to have around 10

1:20:28

billion um jam like and because what the only choice that we really made was

1:20:35

eight decimals and the way hyera works there's a mathematical limit on the whole number of

1:20:41

tokens so based on the number of decimals it actually determines your

1:20:47

maximum Supply a lot of people ask why is your max Supply 92 billion 92 Point

1:20:53

whatever whatever it's literally just a mathematical equation that's built into the hyera white paper that says if you

1:21:01

have X amount of decimals the whole number of tokens is X so if we had um

1:21:08

say less decimals um then the whole number of tokens you know would be more it would

1:21:14

be like uh 900 billion or if we had more decimals um it would be um it's

1:21:21

basically wherever you move the decimal place you're creating this calculation and it's always the same string of

1:21:27

numbers just moving the decimal place um so with eight decimals it turns out to be 92 billion okay great so even if I

1:21:34

wanted to Mint more tokens than 92 billion I couldn't so that's a hard Max

1:21:41

Supply limit whereas most projects they say oh Max Supply 50 billion but no if

1:21:47

they decide to wake up the next day and change their mind they can just hit the mint button and hit another 50 billion

1:21:53

MH um and if you know maybe the CH project changes control to some new other entity

1:22:00

or whatever they can change that sure so I just wanted to be super transparent about like look this is an actual hard

1:22:07

Max Supply that's built into the protocol and I can't get out of it whether I want to or not MH and you know

1:22:14

our total Supply whether it ends up being 5 billion or 10 billion or 15 or

1:22:19

20 you know to keep it somewhere in that range for reasonableness mhm you you know it could hypothetically go up to

1:22:27

902 but probably not MH um but we really

1:22:32

just circulate tokens as the market demands them you know so it's like doesn't matter how many you mint say I

1:22:38

mint to 50 billion it's just sitting you know in the inventory it's not actually

1:22:43

in the market the the tokens that are actually circulating they have to

1:22:48

actually be sold they have to be bought by somebody they has to be demand for those tokens somewhere for them to come

1:22:55

out of the inventory and be circulated to the market so whether it's through OTC Partners or liquidations on the

1:23:02

exchanges and so that's what actually brings tokens in the market and that can slow down or speed up depending on the

1:23:09

organic demand and institutional demand for the token but the minting schedule

1:23:15

or how often you Mint or whether you're minting or not has absolutely no effect on the

1:23:21

price that's just like you know basically putting like tokens storing it

1:23:27

in a warehouse the price has to do with the actual supply and demand of the

1:23:32

token in the Open Marketplace you know what's actually being transacted what's actually circulating

1:23:39

circulating Supply so that's the real market cap so our circulating Supply is like basically um three and a half or I

1:23:49

it's actually over like so we have four billion total minted so it's about 3.5

1:23:55

billion circulating you know um and how much transactions is done every month right now on it like as far as like how

1:24:01

much PE are people putting in yeah I it's hard to say um exactly but I'd say

1:24:08

around a half a million per month that's good yeah yeah that's awesome yeah um

1:24:14

but yeah I mean it's moving you know it's um moving and grooving it's definitely like we're able to meet our

1:24:20

expenses and spend on marketing and all this good stuff and do token BuyBacks as

1:24:26

well so that's the other thing is like if we bring in a huge uh amount of Buys

1:24:31

in the token like institutional buys through OTC it's over the counter we

1:24:36

could say take half that money say somebody you know wants to buy a million dollars worth a jam and maybe we have to

1:24:42

Mint more Jam in order to even fulfill a million dollars worth of jam because we have inventory maybe our inventory is

1:24:47

like half a million say we meant more Jam but then we can then say take half

1:24:52

that million and buy back do BuyBacks and buy the jam back we might mint some but then we can buy jam and bring in

1:25:01

more Jam back into the treasury that's a deflationary thing MH and then the more the platform gets used we get 10% of

1:25:08

every transaction back to the treasury so whether it's a a micro payment fraction of a penny 10% is going to the

1:25:16

treasury or it's a $100,000 nft sale for some high level experiences 10% of

1:25:23

that's going back to Treasury so all that's deflationary pressure on the tokenomics interesting so there's always

1:25:29

tokens coming back to the treasury and then tokens leaving the treasury so sort

1:25:35

of like the US government right the treasury right so you have taxes bringing tokens uh dollars back to the

1:25:43

treasury and they have the treasury and the government spending on programs and

1:25:48

sending money back out and then you have the way money is circulated in with j

1:25:54

pay and all Printing and buying from the treasury and this and that the Federal Reserve buying from the treasury then

1:25:59

you have the treasury bonds where people send money they buy t- bills right

1:26:04

they're basically sending money to the treasury it's deflationary and then those are AAA

1:26:11

guaranteed because the treasury can always buy back those bonds with interest because they're the ones

1:26:16

printing the money so there's no way they could default on a currency that they print mhm so that's why you have

1:26:23

this concept of bills um that are the safest asset gold standard and so we've

1:26:29

actually implemented something similar called uh Jam treasury

1:26:34

bonds that we sell as nfts in the marketplace so you can buy a treasury

1:26:40

bond called a whale Bond sort of like a liberty Bond or something um where you

1:26:46

can essentially stake your jam by buying one of these bonds it's 10% annual yield

1:26:52

so say you have a million Jam you buy a million Jam well bond we guarantee that

1:26:58

we will buy back 1.1 million in a year from now if you sell it back to the

1:27:03

treasury or you can sell it on the open market for whatever it's worth you know during that time period so so that's

1:27:09

something cool that we implemented and that was a great way to bring a lot of jam back to the treasury it's super

1:27:16

deflationary so it's sort of like a delayed minting like eventually we have to pay back that holder buy that back

1:27:22

with Jam um but in the interim we can bring Jam

1:27:27

back to the treasury and then sell that again on the open market so that's just some of the cool

1:27:34

stuff we're doing with and it's an important discussion about token Ops because I do get a lot of questions

1:27:39

about it from the community and everyone especially like token speculators they're all about what's the max Supply

1:27:46

infinite Supply this and that and yeah the token type is infinite but there actually is this Max Supply um uh of the

1:27:54

92 billion um even though it's technically an infinite Supply but ethereum is a true infinite Supply token

1:28:01

falic can wake up tomorrow and mint like 100 trillion ethereum yeah you know if he wants to who knows whether he will

1:28:08

but you know maybe somebody drugs him or something or takes some LSD I don't know

1:28:14

maybe he'll just decide to Mint a trillion ethereum that that could easily happen like there's nothing that's

1:28:19

saying that can happen or if somehow somebody else takes control of ethereum and or vitalic gets it's by hit by a bus

1:28:25

or something any of these things can happen you know I mean there's a ton of major projects that have infinite Supply

1:28:32

and so Bitcoin with the 21 million Max Supply sort of created this whole Low

1:28:38

Max Supply sort of mentality so that you have these crazy big numbers for each

1:28:44

token unit but as you've seen with Dogecoin you know it's going from like

1:28:49

0.0010 Z down to like 4 zos you can still make your 10,000x moon shot uh and it still hasn't

1:28:58

even hit a penny yeah so you know it's like it's neither here nor there it's it's it's apples and oranges sure yeah I

1:29:06

mean I like the the max Supply you know staying at you know basically kind of

1:29:13

controlling the inflation but you know so the thing with ethereum I mean so he

1:29:18

could just go and hit a button one day and there's nothing stopping yeah yeah that's interesting it's actually the

1:29:25

case with most projects most Max Supply projects most every Max supply project

1:29:31

that's a marketing Max Supply that's a Max intended Supply they can wake up the next day and

1:29:37

mint whatever the hell they want so that's why I don't like to say uh we're going to Max Supply 10 billion or Max 5

1:29:44

billion I only want to say the true facts which are even if I wanted to I

1:29:50

can't Min more than 92 Point whatever whatever it's just this protocol ER

1:29:56

limit um my intention is to maybe have around 10

1:30:03

billion you know ideally closer to 5 billion but definitely less than 20 mhm

1:30:10

but there's no guarantees of what that's going to be because I don't want to put myself in a box and not be able to

1:30:17

operate the company sure cuz in order to bring actual dollars into the company um

1:30:23

or liquidity into the company you know we need the flexibility to be able to circulate tokens and sell to OTC

1:30:29

partners and like I just said we rais 30 million you know where's that coming from that's on the token these people

1:30:35

are buying the token right well the our whole market cap our circulating market

1:30:40

caps not 30 million so I mean you know we haven't brought all that we're not

1:30:47

going to Mint you know we're not going to like 10x the supply overnight and then just sell it all and pull in the

1:30:54

million today no we want to build that up over time build up the price takeing

1:31:00

some do BuyBacks so BuyBacks are bringing tokens back to the treasury so whatever we buy back we don't have to

1:31:05

Mint how does a buyback work exactly it's just like same way with the stock market like a lot when the S&P goes up

1:31:13

it's usually because companies are doing a lot of BuyBacks of stock they just buy it on the open market yeah so they

1:31:19

straight up trade so we just trade we buy Market orders

1:31:25

and limit orders like on the open market using our Market making Partners we're experts at doing this

1:31:31

algorithmically but we just straight up buy the inventory on the open market we get that jam back in the treasury we pay

1:31:37

real money for it and the price goes up um so we could we have a we're going to

1:31:43

plan a bunch of huge BuyBacks like we could buy back a million dollar worth of jam that would do wonders for the price

1:31:51

that's a million dollars in Hard Cash I'm spending on my own to token which I could hypothetically mint at zero cost

1:31:58

but it's very beneficial for not only the price but enables us to sell at a

1:32:04

higher price and also is good for the tokenomics because then we don't have to

1:32:09

Mint as much and then that jam that we just bought back we can sell at a higher price later anyway and still make money

1:32:16

on it so it's this sort of um it's a balancing act right could call it a game

1:32:24

that we're playing but we're trying to balance good tokenomics with good

1:32:29

pricing and sort of maximize the amount of Revenue we bring into the company but also sort of like um managing the

1:32:38

currency um in a responsible way like viar Republic they minted a trillion

1:32:44

Reich marks or whatever and then people are using it for like firewood you know

1:32:49

back in the early 30s Germany right or these you know maybe some African

1:32:55

Warlords and they meant like a billion you know whenever the currency goes bust

1:33:01

it's always over inflation right sure of course of course you know we have in the US be problems with inflation it causes

1:33:07

all kinds of other an problems and effects you meant too much but then you have these deflationary uh kind of

1:33:15

situations where um you can have like bitcoin's they call

1:33:21

it deflationary even though it's not um because the de whenever the demand for the token is more than the inflation

1:33:28

there's sort of a deflationary sort of uh Behavior to it um and with our token

1:33:35

doing BuyBacks is technically deflationary it's pulling circulation out the 10% fee on everything is

1:33:41

deflationary so the more the platform usage goes up it's deflationary so we're trying to balance the deflationary

1:33:48

inflationary pressures MH and sometimes you have to skew towards inflation and

1:33:53

sometimes to skew back the other direction and deflation and so we're pulling those levers in both directions and it's sort

1:34:00

of in more of an art form than a science there's no right way to do it it really demands on the needs of the

1:34:07

business right like if we're locked into a billion per year which we're going to

1:34:13

be coming out of a billion Jam per year is a totally arbitrary number MH right

1:34:19

that billion is different today than it is tomorrow the price goes up or down the needs of the business business are

1:34:24

different today and they are tomorrow um we might not need a billion per year a billion per year might be a

1:34:29

billion dollars per year Worth or it could be like less than less than 100,000 worth depending on the price

1:34:36

completely arbitrary the schedule's arbitrary have to wait a whole year till the next billion comes out so say we

1:34:42

sell out of the billion what are we going to do have zero dollars to pay our developers have zero dollars to do

1:34:47

marketing that's untenable situation so yeah we minted a billion in January and

1:34:52

we were doing this billion schedule but then it became very obvious to us that that's not sustainable at all and it doesn't make any actual sense from

1:35:00

operating business standpoint so we're going to go to a more Dynamic minting

1:35:05

protocol so we on a monthly basis we'll determine how much we need to Mint and

1:35:12

we'll mint it or maybe we mint nothing or maybe we're buying back and we bought a back so many tongues we don't need to

1:35:18

Mint anything or maybe we need to do a big sale or we have a certain deal

1:35:23

coming through we have me a lot more than the last month you know we don't know what that's going to be we have

1:35:29

different costs we also have with the whale bonds the treasury bonds we have obligations to pay back people uh who

1:35:35

bought these bonds who are owed their bond amount plus the 10% so we have

1:35:41

obligations to pay back maybe we have to Mint to pay back Bond holders uh maybe we have to Mint to satisfy OTC Partners

1:35:49

who want to buy the token for dollars um maybe we buy back a ton of

1:35:55

tokens and we build up the treasury and we don't need to Mint to anything right maybe the the platform usage goes

1:36:02

through the roof and we have tens of millions of people streaming and the 10% on all the transactions and all the nfts

1:36:08

is more than enough to ever mint again so that's the ideal scenario where the

1:36:14

true utility of the platform the true usage of the platform is bringing enough Jam back to the treasury that we can if we were to sell

1:36:21

the exact amount that we're bringing in then it would be perfectly not deflationary inflationary but we might

1:36:29

just I mean in an ideal scenario we'll be bringing in more Jam to the treasury

1:36:34

than we even need to sell MH so then it would be a pure deflationary token yeah

1:36:39

so I want to and it it might take inflation to get to the scale of that point right we might need to inflate the

1:36:46

token to bring in the capital to actually spend on the marketing to get the celebrity artist to scale to tens of

1:36:52

millions of users to get to a point where it's super deflationary so you'll have def

1:36:58

inflationary periods and deflationary periods and ideally at the end of the

1:37:03

day we have maybe around 10 maybe 15 billion tokens circulating and then

1:37:10

we've hit this scale point where we're actually competing with Spotify you know we have the full catalog that's on

1:37:17

Spotify and apple music and everything and our experience is better so we're head-to-head and we bringing on tens of

1:37:23

millions of users and then that's a deflationary pressure on the token so

1:37:29

then the price is always going up so then it's just a great investment sure yeah that's awesome I mean the the

1:37:36

tokenomics of a lot of these things I haven't you know really dove into I know a lot of people do yeah uh and I that's

1:37:43

their world and they're looking at it it's not not necessarily my world but it's it's good to understand kind of

1:37:49

your thought process behind it and how you're going to grow your company is ultimately you got to got to have cash

1:37:55

to grow yeah I mean this is what I think about all day and uh I'm kind of lost in it but this is also everyone see

1:38:01

everyone who's a token Speculator a lot of these crypto Bros yeah they seem to have very strong opinions about this and

1:38:08

you know super judgmental um and uh yeah everyone has their like oh it should be

1:38:13

this it should be that well have you ever run a web 3 company have you ever issued a token do you even know what the

1:38:19

hell you're talking about no yeah like I know because I'm actually doing

1:38:25

I'm living it so I know what what it needs to be what it should be you're thinking of uh token uh tokenomics 247

1:38:35

basically yeah exactly yeah like you know we mentioned a billion on day one

1:38:41

right just for starters um and I was very careful we're never putting a Max Supply figure

1:38:46

publicly we're not in our white paper never had Max Supply um and then at some

1:38:52

point later I said I CL clarified by the way this is an infinite Supply type that's the technical protocol type and

1:38:59

everybody freaked out oh it's infinite Supply you'll just minted all the stuff and I'm like even if I minted a trillion

1:39:04

it doesn't mean anything because nobody's buying that much it only matters what people are buying and then I was like okay well you

1:39:11

know we'll we'll shoot to M like a billion per year that seems reasonable right um and then um and some people

1:39:20

like was up in arms about it like oh yeah yeah yeah it's Max and then we're reading the white paper a

1:39:26

little bit closer and like well actually there is this protocol level thing

1:39:32

called there's a max number of whole tokens based on the number of decimals you have so we calculated it like oh

1:39:39

actually 92 billion Point whatever is the max Supply so even though we're an

1:39:44

infinite Supply token we actually do have a Max Supply but this was not a number that I chose this is a number

1:39:50

that's like hard limit just in the protocol sure and you know if we had chose a different number of decimals we

1:39:56

could have had 10 times more or 10 times less you know it would have been n

1:40:01

billion if it was a different you know number of decimals and so I was like look so just

1:40:08

we're just going to be super transparent yeah everyone's asking us what's the max Supply what's the max Supply here's the max Supply it's 92 billion uh and then

1:40:16

we say well our intended Supply goal is around 10 billion but

1:40:24

we're currently minting a billion per year but a that's going to change and B

1:40:29

10 billion is not set in stone and um it's going to be whatever it's going to

1:40:34

be whatever it needs to be sure and minting doesn't have any effect on price

1:40:40

like I was saying earlier it's all about what actually goes into the marketplace what the demand is for the token um and

1:40:46

all that so you know I'm thinking about this all the time everyone seems to have their opinion their their opinion about

1:40:52

people get very opinionate about this and yeah it's more of like and I understand like if people are thinking about investing and they're like okay I

1:40:58

want to understand how this all works just like you're talking about a theore hey they could just hit a button and you know uh infinity but I mean it's

1:41:05

reasonable it's when people get mad and make it personal that it becomes a

1:41:10

little uncomfortable for me I don't know if that's happening to you I haven't watched it but oh no it has happened and that's why I sort of started talking

1:41:16

about this like yeah like we have I'd say we have the most vibrant

1:41:24

invested community that I've ever seen crypto that's awesome like we have this

1:41:29

thing called the million Jam whale Club okay that's just an idea I had like to incentivize people to buy more Jam I was

1:41:37

like okay if you buy a million Jam like a sizable chunk of jam you got to put a few thousand dollars down at

1:41:44

least um buy a million Jam you get exclusive access to this private telegram group first we had like 10 guys

1:41:52

in there and they're like you know they're our allies right they're like super Jam whales you know call them the

1:41:59

whales and then it start growing growing and dude this group is crazy there's every time I open it there's thousands

1:42:05

of messages oh [ __ ] there's like 150 guys in there thousands of mess I open every every day or two two to three

1:42:12

thousand unread I used to read every single message now I can't even read like less than 1% I just don't have the

1:42:18

time but they've made their all their own memes they have their own stickers everything Jam there's hundreds of jam

1:42:23

memes there's they're always talking about this and that and they'll go on Twitter and if anybody says anything

1:42:29

negative they're futing Jam they'll attack them and and they're G everyone who posts anything about crypto any

1:42:36

crypto bro or influencer they're commenting on all their tweets like well what's the next gem what's the next 10x

1:42:43

THX like jam Jam Jam Jam going nuts and I love it I love it it's like great to

1:42:48

have those thousand I guess our 100 super fans right are Jam Warriors you

1:42:55

know and so we have our Jam Warriors or Jam ambassadors if you will and it's

1:43:00

it's super vibrant so if you're able to get into this exclusive Club all you have to do is buy million Jam contact

1:43:07

the admin in the main telegram group where there's like 5,000 people send a screenshot of your jam and she'll invite

1:43:14

you in so you don't have to go through me you just go through the admin um but yeah that is where it's at like that is

1:43:20

the true epicenter of the the nerve center of the JM Community is there and

1:43:28

there's some chitter chatter there was a long time ago in the sort of hadera

1:43:33

community groups when people started futing jam and the fud is always the

1:43:38

same thing it's always like this is an infinite Supply token and they just they

1:43:44

promised a billion Max Supply and then they broke their promise to the community and started minting more every

1:43:51

single thing about that is untrue like I've said a it's not infinite Supply there is Max Supply B there was never a

1:43:57

Max Supply to billion it was always total Supply to billion and see um we've

1:44:03

been very clear about uh what we're minting and when and whatever and also that has nothing to do with the price

1:44:08

anyway it's a complete misunderstanding of the nature of tokenomics and crypto markets in general so we have our guys

1:44:15

anyone who fuds you know the jam ambassadors are going after them Jam ambassadors that's cool we'll send the

1:44:22

dogs after you know they're going to they're going to come get you so uh and and it's you know it's it's mostly

1:44:28

unfair criticism but I'd say that's a super small minority yeah less than 1% are people saying anything bad um the

1:44:36

vast majority of people uh you know speaking out on social media and in the hyera community

1:44:43

groups and all the community groups are always saying positive things about Jam man I wish I wish uh my my house was

1:44:49

under under renovation right now because we would have a we could have like a big jam party oh yeah bring bring some

1:44:54

artist friends over but U when it's done it's going to be about 12 to 14 months of renovation but maybe next year uh we

1:45:03

could throw a good party and I actually do a couple parties a year man so like a like private ones I do a circus party

1:45:09

every year oh Fourth of July 14 circus act this year it's a lot of funing and

1:45:15

then Halloween um we have a a giant Halloween party C party I was Willie

1:45:21

Wonka last year had two Oompa loomas uh that were with me but now it's a lot of

1:45:27

fun we have we have a we have a good time and um but throw we love to do a jam party here that be cool man we have

1:45:33

we have a great time um well anything else you want to say before uh before we

1:45:39

end as far as uh you know for people want to know about your project yeah I mean I know we kind of

1:45:46

went on into the Weeds about tokenomics and hyera and all these it's okay

1:45:53

es and you know less about maybe the actual project but um what I'd say is

1:46:00

like look we're here I'm an artist I all my friends are musicians we're the only reason I'm

1:46:07

doing this is for the artists M like we want to put the power back in the hands of the artists we want to help more

1:46:16

artists monetize their music we want artists to be able to earn a living we want musicians and artists be

1:46:24

able to put food on the table and not just that if their song is really great and goes viral make millions of dollars

1:46:31

you know not just that they have billions of streams make millions with millions of streams you know what I mean

1:46:38

um that's totally possible and we can make that possible not just through the streaming royalty

1:46:44

micro payments we're paying 100 times more it's a fair deal artists keep 90%

1:46:50

of everything it's also a fair deal we we're giving you you know Fair Deal um but the digital assets the nfts

1:47:00

I know the nft is sort of a dirty word now like uh formerly known as music nfts

1:47:05

it's really just tokenization if you're not Crypton name it doesn't matter it's just a limited edition digital item

1:47:15

right call it a token call it a collectible we call music Collectibles we've gone through so many names music

1:47:20

Collectibles digital assets whatever that's the way to really make big money

1:47:26

quickly on the platform so what we've built in this Marketplace is the ability to do uh

1:47:35

music collectible drop think about like a Content drop

1:47:41

you're dropping a new exclusive song You Know unreleased song producer

1:47:47

Cod of a song a whole album can drop with your artwork with your music

1:47:54

video These nfts it's not just a pfp or profile picture jpeg token mhm like The

1:48:03

nft Craze of the past was single jpeg board Apes nonsense however you think

1:48:09

about that um this is like multimedia multifile

1:48:16

tokens and it gets way better than that that's just for starters for starters you can do an nft drop that's

1:48:23

literally a whole album with a music video with you know 10 behind the scenes photos and you know liner notes

1:48:31

everything in addition to that you can do unlockable perks so we have this

1:48:37

thing where you can attach to any token perks basically redeemables unlockables

1:48:43

whatever you want to call it we call it unlockable perks it's an encrypted uh file or an encrypted piece

1:48:51

of information so you can unlock say a backstage pass

1:48:57

or a meet and greet with the artist it's basically token gated content so you can

1:49:03

have content there whether it's any form of media that you upload or just text MH

1:49:08

maybe it's a discount code off merchandise at the store or maybe you get free merchandise with this code or

1:49:14

maybe it's the address to a party maybe it's somebody's phone number to actually redeem something or maybe it's artist's

1:49:20

phone number maybe it's here's who you need to email here's the instructions to get your wristband for

1:49:28

backstage or here's how you can schedule a time here's a caly link or something

1:49:33

to schedule a FaceTime call with the artist or a Google Meer or Zoom or maybe

1:49:41

it's uh here's how you can schedule golf with the artist or dinner with the artist or hang out for two hours with

1:49:47

the artist you know these types of super high value experiences that are traditionally not available at all like

1:49:54

everyone has their favorite two or three artists maybe their number one artist of all time they just idolize that they

1:50:01

love they listen a million times and then they'll just do anything to become

1:50:07

friends with that person maybe if they have the opportunity maybe to meet them and they're Star Struck and whatever and

1:50:12

if you have some money to throw around like yeah sure I'll pay 10 grand to hang

1:50:18

out with whoever DJ or whoever band oh yeah you know and so think of it like

1:50:24

the example I sometimes give is like what is the highest value experience that I could possibly

1:50:31

imagine in the music space that could be sold on our platform hypothetically and so what comes to mind

1:50:38

is like hang out with Jay-Z and Beyonce on a mega yacht in the Mediterranean

1:50:45

like mikos and for a weekend I'm flying flown out on a private jet picked up in

1:50:50

Rolls-Royce and then I get to become good friends with Jay-Z and drink claz

1:50:56

aul with him on the mega yacht and there's models everywhere and like okay now that's like a million dollar

1:51:01

experience at least you know uh for a weekend and there's plenty of billionaires out there who would totally

1:51:08

pay for that I mean literally Jack dorsy sold uh title to uh

1:51:15

Twitter um or no sorry Jack dorsy bought title Twitter bought Jay-Z's platform

1:51:22

just so can hang out with Jay-Z oh really he spent $300 million just to become friends with Jay-Z wow and then

1:51:27

he was hanging out at the box at the Super Bowl with JayZ Jack dorsy and Jay-Z so there's an example right there

1:51:34

a billionaire spending $300 million just become friends with Jay-Z um but there's plenty of other

1:51:40

people who are not billionaires like say they've got a few million and they'll spend 10 20 50k to have an incredible

1:51:48

experience say you love Pearl Jam or something or Metallica and you want to like meet those guys backstage right

1:51:54

absolutely or maybe go to the VIP Afterparty and be at their table you know these type things we're doing

1:52:00

something really cool I guess I don't know if I can announce this but with uh

1:52:06

um with like wuang Clan oh nice you know and so VIP Meetup with wuang um or you

1:52:12

know some of these artists like we're working with a lot of celebrity alist artists on figuring out how to create

1:52:18

these experiences and then monetize them through tokenization in our platform so all that's under the unlockable perks so

1:52:25

you can attach even a ticket as an unlockable perk so say here's the ticket

1:52:31

for the VIP access this Afterparty right or to this special house party or or

1:52:37

here's the meet and greet the dinner whatever MH or anything you could attach anything to the unlockable perks and

1:52:44

those can be these nfts these tokens with all the content and the unlockables and everything can be sold for a fixed

1:52:50

price or they can be sold for an at auction mhm so you can allow the market

1:52:57

to discover the price say you have a bidding war for the Jay-Z hangout and you have a bunch of people putting 100K

1:53:04

and 250k and then 10 people fighting over two spots right or one spot you

1:53:09

have a one of one it's super exclusive and it's paid in Jam everything's paid in Jam every they have to buy Jam so all

1:53:15

these biders have to buy Jam so say it's bidding at a million dollars you have 10 people fighting over it that's $10

1:53:21

million worth Jam that had to be bought just to make those bids um so you can

1:53:26

see how that the liquidity can get infused into the market into the jam Market very easily yep and so because

1:53:34

with the tokens you can have that limited edition one of one true oneof one and it's provable the ownership if

1:53:41

you own that token those unlockable perks are token gated so the actual

1:53:46

here's the phone number here's the WhatsApp of Jay-Z's manager who will you

1:53:52

you can can schedule the logistics for your yacht outing with Jay-Z right like

1:53:57

sure that would be what's in the unlockable perk like if you buy this one of one super exclusive token on auction

1:54:04

you can actually buy you know that thing or you can have 10 of 10 say for the

1:54:09

Afterparty you can have you know no more than 10 people can fit at the table or something like that or a hundred of a

1:54:15

hundred for a bigger event or maybe exclusive access to a telegram group or Whatsapp group or whatever it is Discord

1:54:21

Channel whatever um you can structure it any way you want so you can create the

1:54:27

scarcity or as many tokens as you want you can put whatever content you can

1:54:32

attach to it music videos photos whatever artwork images whatever and you

1:54:39

can attach these unlockable perks to the Token token gated unlockable so we

1:54:44

literally encrypt the content and owning the token decrypts is the key to decrypt

1:54:49

it that's how it actually works super cool Tech or you can do tickets or because we do the streaming royalty

1:54:56

micro payments you can attach a portion of those streaming royalties basically

1:55:01

the jam that you're earning for people streaming your music you can attach that Revenue a percentage of that to the

1:55:08

Token so as a nft collector I could buy a token that say say 10% of the

1:55:14

streaming for that song is tokenized so say it's a oneof one just

1:55:20

to make it easier let's let's just say it's 10 of 10 mhm each of those 10 collectors will be earning 1% of the

1:55:28

streaming royalties for that on tun FM so the moment you buy that nft that

1:55:34

token with the streaming royalties you're earning instantly alongside the artist so you can participate in the

1:55:39

upside with the artist so that's a super powerful platform and there's there's

1:55:45

people who have been trying to build whole companies around that have not been able to do it but that's just a feature of our Marketplace just to show

1:55:50

how powerful it is and then there's also the Creator royalty so the secondary sales royalty say if you sell an nft and

1:55:58

then that gets resold again to somebody else on the secondary Market a percentage of that sale goes back to the

1:56:04

Creator every time so that's that Creator royalty and that's a something that's pretty common on nft marketplaces

1:56:10

we have the streaming royalty and the Creator secondary sale royalty and so

1:56:16

and the ticketing and the perks and all this stuff and then you can do multi-tier drops so each one of those

1:56:21

tokens you can have a gold tier of one of one silver tier 10 of 10 bronze tier

1:56:27

100 of 100 each one of those are different tokens say that is 100 editions 10 editions One Edition all of

1:56:34

that is wrapped up in one big Mega drop so the drop is like the whole thing and

1:56:41

then you have these tiers with all the different types of tokens so that's how the marketplace works and it's super

1:56:48

powerful and that's what's going to enable us to monetize these experiences for artists it's a

1:56:55

whole Market that's completely untapped mhm we're talking billions of dollars worth of value to be unlocked and it's

1:57:03

up to the artists to determine what they're willing to offer in terms of access to themselves but they're

1:57:08

definitely willing to offer more than they're selling and putting out there right now sure and we know that and

1:57:14

we're willing to place a bit on that and we're creating the tools to be able to monetize that to sell those exclusive

1:57:22

experiences limited edition content limited edition experiences limited

1:57:28

edition anything mhm Limited in any way and priced any way whether fixed price

1:57:33

or auction so you can price them you 100 bucks a token or thousand bucks a token

1:57:38

or put it on auction starting bid is 10,000 depending on how high value what your offering is and how big you are as

1:57:45

an artist and then we you know we enable artists to expand their fan base and Market their music and all these things

1:57:51

so we're the only platform that's actually vertically integrated a music

1:57:56

nft Marketplace within a music streaming platform MH so you can actually enjoy

1:58:03

the music nfts where you buy them nothing else is like this exists there's things that they say they're music nfts

1:58:09

there's music related nfts we're actual true music nfts with music attached to it with all the

1:58:15

streaming and everything and you can stream that song in the music streaming experience where you add it to a

1:58:21

playlist save it to your library blah blah blah blah blah press Shuffle press play it's not just a standalone player

1:58:28

on a website that plays one song you know it's actually a music streaming platform so I just wanted to like give

1:58:35

an overview of like how powerful this platform is and how it's totally different from anything else else out

1:58:41

there and how we can actually monetize the music yeah what are what artists

1:58:47

right now do you have doing those um uh special you know know performances or or

1:58:55

packages yeah so um I mean we have uh a few dozen drops on there right now

1:59:01

there's some rock bands some EDM DJs there's one DJ who's has the number one Billboard hits um we're working with a

1:59:09

bunch of other DJs uh I don't know how much I can say publicly usually uh un like smaller uh venues I I drop a little

1:59:17

bit more Alpha on names but you know what I mean like I don't want to jeopardize anything but we're talk about

1:59:22

tier one A-list DJs EDM Artists M who were working with tier one A-list hipop

1:59:29

R&B groups tier one A-list rock bands and things like that um to do these

1:59:36

types of things um we have ongoing discussions with dozens of celebrities at the moment um to figure out what type

1:59:45

of nft drop they want to do what type of digital asset drop and part of that is figuring out what's the tokenomics so

1:59:52

what's the right number of limited editions MH what's the content like unreleased song or this type of artwork

1:59:59

or whatever um and what's the um what's the

2:00:04

pricing how are we going to do fixed price how much auction what's the starting bid how much token you know all

2:00:11

these types of considerations so we want to help artists maximize the amount of money that they can raise through their

2:00:17

drop and so we're helping sort of create those campaigns that's awesome and so we

2:00:22

actually do have a really exciting deal going on and we're talking with the Michael Jackson estate to do 44

2:00:30

unreleased songs to be exclusive on toun FM wow that'd be huge and so one of the

2:00:37

first songs we're doing is with uh Jafar Jackson who's Michael Jackson's nephew who's actually playing Michael in the

2:00:44

biopic uh that's going to be released massive Blockbuster the same director as

2:00:50

who did the Bohemian city queen movies doing the the Michael it's called Michael awesome um and the it's all over

2:00:57

Rolling Stone and all this kind of thing right now how far long are you on that on that deal is it signed yet or you close it's very close to being signed so

2:01:05

by the time this pod probably launches it all that's why I'm I'm talking about I have mentioned it publicly but I'm

2:01:12

saying not saying it's signed but sure close we're very close there's a grant component from hyera foundation and

2:01:17

there's different aw sort of a lot of different stakeholders and movie Parts but everybody's on board the family's on

2:01:23

board that's awesome the foundation's on board we're on board everyone's on board to do this we have Jafar we have all

2:01:29

these people so it's it's a big thing and then there's also collaborations with Bruno Mars wants to record a song

2:01:36

with Michael A lot of these songs are unfinished that's why they're never released it's like you got a chorus and

2:01:41

a verse and like opening and like after a minute and a half it kind of like ends right falls off yeah so it needs to be

2:01:47

finished we still have all the stems we have the original producers people were producing with m all that stuff they're

2:01:53

all on Board finish these songs we need a couple aess celebrities to do that so

2:01:58

there's been interest from the weekend Bruno Mars Usher all these kind of aist celebrities to do songs with Michael um

2:02:06

so that that's going to be huge like you know unreleased Michael Jackson I've heard some of this stuff it's awesome

2:02:13

really yeah yeah like unreleased actual net new Michael Jackson coming back from

2:02:19

the dead with aist celebrity is recording new verses on it it's I mean

2:02:25

it's stuff that it'll be a cultural movement it's going to be a major Splash

2:02:30

like the only place in the world you can stream this on tun FM oh and by the way if you want to pay $10,000 or $100,000

2:02:37

you can hang out with the whole family and tour Neverland Ranch and sure have front row seats at the show and where

2:02:45

they're doing a tour and stuff with the movie and meet Jafar and stuff like that

2:02:50

starring the movie you know we're going to do all types of experiences like that and there's unreleased Tupac music

2:02:56

there's a lot of unreleased stuff that's sitting dormant you know and so that's the stuff I'm most excited about AB

2:03:02

these types of deals well I know like you in Nashville I had a friend uh Chase laow he did uh Parker mccalla's first

2:03:10

nft who uh and it's a a country artist but um uh you know they did really well

2:03:17

it's like one of the first ones launching out of Nashville and of course we had you know the Market kind of

2:03:22

happened the the crypto winter um that recently passed so nfts you know went

2:03:28

down but there's so much that can be done and if in the in the music industry you're kind of leading that charge with

2:03:34

nfing these Special experiences this access uh it really will be a game

2:03:41

changer mean you think about like when an artist tours I've always thought that they they leave a lot of money on the

2:03:47

table because you know they're on the road uh first thing that would be doing if I were a well-known artist is I would

2:03:55

be selling access to a private show backstage three songs you know yeah exactly yeah private show and you think

2:04:01

about you know a lot of these artists let's say they're least I'm speaking in country music this is this a the the the

2:04:08

market that I know better let's say they're just got a record deal you know

2:04:14

they're going on the road they've got a song in the top 40 maybe they they're getting 10,000 a show but they got their

2:04:19

tour bus they got their band they got to pay for so they're not clearing much at all making that much money you know at

2:04:24

all and you know what would an extra three to four thousand to their bottom

2:04:30

line do for them on 100 shows that's three to $400,000 in a year so uh I've

2:04:35

always thought that the artist they haven't uh they've left a ton of money on the table that their fans would want

2:04:40

access you know imagine if you had some guitars sitting uh at the booth and you

2:04:46

know you get get a sign guitar and a song from the artist or three songs for artist you know there uh trying to

2:04:53

impress his his girlfriend he's like oh I'll give you $500 for that access you know you do that five times at a show

2:04:58

that's $2,500 uh selling the strings to their guitars the night before uh you know selling the hat that they wore yeah

2:05:05

all those things they've they've underutilized uh the ability to really make money on the road yeah but with the

2:05:12

the nft idea I mean you could package up a fan club and just crush it like the

2:05:20

ultimate fan clubs are going they're going to be that is the future uh nfts are the future for fan clubs and things

2:05:26

like that for artists I know you think about this like you're talking about to tokenization all day and all night

2:05:31

you're probably thinking about all these different things within your industry of of ways you can monetize and actually

2:05:37

really what it's about is having the artist make more money that when they realize this when they realize what

2:05:42

you've done and it's like a you know they got to trust you that's probably

2:05:48

the biggest hurdle that you're going to face is having to artist trust you because you get a bigname person to put

2:05:55

their name behind your company obviously the value is going to raise up but there's a risk because there's a lot of

2:06:00

shyers out there per se now you've partnered with hadera and you've got you've got some street cred per se don't

2:06:08

you know you're not just like the average company just kind of just starting coming up you've got some people backing you but that's going to

2:06:14

be in the artist head but once it takes man everybody's going to want to be

2:06:20

doing it because it really is the future of music and you know there's some others out there but you're kind of the

2:06:25

first that's really put it together in a really logical way with with some some big backers big companies like you had

2:06:31

that we looked at that screen at Google IBM all these ones that are backing you so sky's the limit for you man yeah I

2:06:38

mean everything you're saying is exactly what we're going after I mean the amount of money that's being left on the table

2:06:44

even any given tour those special access experiences access to the artist special experience the strings the private show

2:06:52

the whatever it is the meet and greet the backstage pass all these front row

2:06:57

seats VIP packages dinner whatever FaceTime I'll write a song for you all

2:07:03

the above whether it's during the tour or outside of the tour whether it's a digital experience a real life

2:07:08

experience those are all high utility experiences that we're tokenizing yeah because there's no real Marketplace for

2:07:14

that stuff well just think about this too the early artists that are in with

2:07:20

you you know they're getting paid back in Jam right they would have to offload

2:07:26

yeah the money 50% put in cash the other 50% keep in

2:07:33

the in the coin exactly five years you know you could 20 50 100 extra money if

2:07:39

all goes well so you have the potential upside too that uh they might not

2:07:45

realize yeah I mean there's anyone who wants to take the risk on the token

2:07:51

price can feel free to keep their jam yeah it's the easy way to go they earn

2:07:56

Jam either they can offload it say they need to pay their expenses whatever pay for food whatever but the rest they keep

2:08:03

in Jam as an investment as a speculative thing that's going to and you know and

2:08:08

if that 100x is because all these Dynamics we talked about whether it's deflationary or the bidding war stuff

2:08:14

and or the fact that everyone else is not offloading all their jam you know all of these things feed into the fact

2:08:21

also just bringing in new fans and new demand and people actually buying jam with a credit card to spend on music

2:08:28

people buying jam on a credit card or on Exchange to buy a high value nft sure

2:08:33

you know it's all bringing new liquidity into the market yep and with the BuyBacks with all the stuff the def deflationary pressure of the 10% all

2:08:41

this is you know creating a really nice picture for where Jam can go into the

2:08:47

future from a price action standpoint yeah obviously do your own research and not Financial advice and all yada yada

2:08:53

and I don't know what price it's going to end up being who knows God knows the sky's limit Jam a dollar Jam $10 Jam a

2:09:00

million dollars I don't know um or Jam zero you know it's like who's to say right it's it's it is what it is um you

2:09:07

know there is that potential for the upside for the artists I guess there's a potential for to be less too yeah so um

2:09:14

you know that's part of the that's part of the the risk my thought though is especially the ones that would to get in

2:09:19

would get in now or in the next you know 12 months there's more of a of a

2:09:25

potential for sort of like joining YouTube in the really early days like if you go viral on YouTube you just own

2:09:31

YouTube you know like Mr Beast or whatever but the thing is is like the trust factor is a hurdle so you get

2:09:36

rewarded by being an early adopter and you help J the jam millionaires they

2:09:43

joke about it years from you know yeah we just we just bought or you know we were an artist we got $10,000 and we

2:09:51

kept in and now it's a million yeah yeah you're going to hear all these stories didn't know that I had it in my my hard

2:09:56

drive but um and our Jam Wells are all be millionaires if Jam hits a dollar you know fingers crossed but yeah it's

2:10:03

really about those use cases like when we show and we are working on this of

2:10:09

like showing a video start to finish of this artist creates their nft drop they

2:10:16

upload their music they push it to their say they have a million followers on Instagram or Tik Tok or whatever y they

2:10:21

push it out there all of a sudden they're earning thousands of dollars from streaming that they never saw from

2:10:27

Spotify they bring all their fans over to ton FM they do a big drop their super

2:10:32

fans start spending money they make a few hundred K in a few hours with their drop and they're like holy crap I've

2:10:38

never made this much money in my life I can hardly pay my rent and I have millions of fans you know why don't you

2:10:44

have those kind why don't you do like a jam a jam coin tour and you know have

2:10:52

all the payments for the artist you know strike a deal with the right artist and have all the payments from the fans Etc

2:10:59

be or most of them you know all that can be in in Jam token is it Jam token or

2:11:04

Jam coin yeah Jam token Jam coin whatever you want to call um technically Jam token but whatever um yeah I mean

2:11:13

I'm I'm open for anything I mean we want to have there's so many ideas that we haven't even done like well Jam tour Jam

2:11:20

tour bus you know Jam Festival jam fest the jam fest in the metaverse we're

2:11:26

actually building a whole music festival in the metaverse with tokenized tickets

2:11:31

titing I don't know if I'll ever get into that [ __ ] but yeah it's basically just I get it I get it yeah yeah yeah

2:11:36

it's just VR right like yeah whatever you're going to put your Apple Vision Pro on yeah go to a show in the

2:11:43

metaverse go to uh DJ rave party see your favorite DJ perform live go to the

2:11:50

main stage see a big band play and maybe it's even a real live show that watch I've never even been in the metaverse I

2:11:56

haven't done the whole VR thing I I like live concert you do VR it's I I you can see why it's getting popular I see but

2:12:03

then you can make friends you can go with your friends say you have friends all around the world you all go to the show together your favorite artists you

2:12:09

have your favorite band you go see them there's maybe an acoustic stage you know there's maybe a a rave Dan or some like

2:12:16

a psychedelic Forest DJ thing and it's all super cool and there's art

2:12:21

everywhere and maybe there's like U you know a country music bar there's a karaoke bar sure you can create whatever

2:12:28

world you want in the metaverse so we want to create this like amazing super trippy like uh music festival experience

2:12:36

like a Coachella laala paloa but in the metaverse sit in your couch and anytime

2:12:42

you want go have that Festival experience catch a couple shows you'll

2:12:48

see the lineup every day there'll be a lineup it's a festival that never ends you know so that's that's an idea we

2:12:54

also want to do real world festivals you know we want to do the jam fest you know professionally done like the whole bit

2:13:00

like book all the best artists sell all the tickets through Jam use our platform for all the ticketing and everything the

2:13:06

whole bit um all that's coming you know it's all in due time once we get a

2:13:13

couple aess celebrity artist drops out there and the use cases behind them showing behind the scenes of how much

2:13:19

they were able to earn and were able to demonstrate some case studies to other artists like hey this artist you might

2:13:26

have heard of uh was able to generate 2.3 million on this drop just doing this

2:13:31

this and that like holy crap well we can do something like that and then they do it and then they do it then it's a

2:13:37

snowball effect so you know we've just sort of quietly rolled out this Marketplace recently right it's we've

2:13:44

been building it for over two years like it's super robust nothing else like it

2:13:49

exists nothing else is even close to existing with this level of functionality this level of utility so

2:13:57

now we're ready to go to market and we've lined up an incredible roster of

2:14:02

artists and celebrities and these really cool opportunities like Michael Jackson Legacy cataloges as well to really go to

2:14:10

market come out there with it so I mean this is like the Calm before the storm we're right before the hockey stick

2:14:16

inflection point I mean you saw the chart like it just begun um and that's just because we announced the 20 million

2:14:23

funding now it's 30 million and there's more coming you know and so it's a

2:14:29

really exciting time to get involved you know you're in early you have that feeling of like being the right place at

2:14:35

the right time and um that's where we are right now you know things are only going up from here Jam To The Moon Jam

2:14:42

To The Moon Jam Moon as our Jammer well say awesome man well it was great talking to you man we've been going two

2:14:48

hours now so that's uh yeah that's good it's it's a good little wrap so um yeah thanks for coming by appreciate it

2:14:54

anytime you're in Nashville stop by and uh I want to get some updates here as this thing's blown up man some Alpha all

2:14:59

right yeah absolutely thanks bu nice to meet you

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